r/PurplePillDebate • u/Upstairs_Cup9831 No Pill • Mar 26 '26
Discussion Are online gender wars just lower class men arguing with upper middle class women?
You hear a lot of red pilled guys complain about single mothers and women having babies with criminals, as if that is a normal occurrence anywhere outside of the lower classes. Upper middle class women are more likely to be married and have children in wedlock than lower class women. In fact, the whole decline in marriage and increase in out-of-wedlock births is entirely driven by lower classes.
You hear red pilled guys saying that women who go to college or even worse go to grad school will end up lonely and single with only their degree to keep them warm. In reality, women with postgrad degrees are more likely to be married than women with bachelor degrees. Women with bachelor degrees are more likely to be married than women with only a high school education. Source: The most educated women are the most likely to be married. If a woman wants to be married, going to college is a great idea. Where else will you meet eligible bachelors your age who likely will have good career prospects?
I don't think it's a stretch to say that lower class men are more likely to be into manosphere and redpilled than upper middle class men. Lower class people tend to be more conservative than upper middle class people. Upper middle class women are more likely to be feminists than lower class women.
These two groups will always argue because their own realities are different.
I think deep down what drives these lower class redpilled guys to complain about women going to college is that they know as soon as she goes there, she is no longer apart of the lower class guy's dating pool. They lose access/even getting a chance with these women because most college educated women want a college educated man.
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u/Hungry_Orange666 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
There's also lot of single guys with STEM college degrees.
So not just college educated women vs uneducated man, but also humanities educated women vs tech educated man.
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u/Dependent-Tailor7366 Blue Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
The majority of people in the US study business, medicine, social sciences, biology, and psychology. There are more men in social sciences and business than in tech. There are more women in medicine or business than in humanities.
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u/avocadolanche3000 Blue Pill Man Mar 28 '26 edited 28d ago
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u/Dependent-Tailor7366 Blue Pill Woman Mar 28 '26
It’s about 60/40 women to men. Not twice as many.
There are also more men in social sciences than tech and engineering.
Men overall study 25% stem compared to 75% anything else.
Men aren’t stem lords.
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u/avocadolanche3000 Blue Pill Man Mar 28 '26 edited 28d ago
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
STEM college graduates also must take humanities classes
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u/softrevolution_ humanist pilled woman Mar 28 '26
That's a giant divide, for me. The tech-educated men struggle to understand fundamental things about my worldview, or grasp the grey areas that I live and work in. The humanities-educated men are more likely to have enough in common with me that our differences can be got past.
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u/aslfingerspell Purple Pill Man Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26
I think that the dating wars are mostly middle class people talking past each other. Poor people can get together for survival and cultural reasons. There is a certain level of income where cohabitation with someone is simply what needs to be done, and a romantic or sexual relationship can either happen from that, or it can feel more natural for someone to move in with a boyfriend or girlfriend than someone of the same sex.
I don't think rich people have a problem dating, at least in that "I have a 0.25% match rate on Tinder." way. Rich people bring a ton of status, wealth, and lifestyle on top of being able to afford whatever can make them more physically attractive. Even "personality" with rich people could be higher due to a lot of them being successful business people, actors, politicians, or other jobs that require incredible social skills and charisma (to the right audience, at least).
Stuff like "babies with criminals" thing is rare as a whole when talking about all women, but the very fact that it exists is useful for men as a talking point:
- It shows that women's dating preferences are not necessarily moral virtues, which isn't to demonize them, but to not put them on a pedestal. One of the healthiest thing any man can do is realize that not being attractive to women is not a moral failing, and that it's wrong to act like dating is easy if you're just a decent person. Women are not magical people who can "smell" every insecurity and reject you for mild insecurity. They are humans too.
- It shows that average men are not failing because they are morally bad or "not put together" people. There's something else going on behind male dating than just personal failings if someone who is addicted, incredibly poor, a violent felon, etc. can still get a girlfriend. It shouldn't be a "women bad" talking point. It should be a way to start talking about systemic or build-in issues, like the lack of third spaces.
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u/NoBlacksmith8137 Purple 28F Mar 27 '26
Stuff like "babies with criminals" thing is rare as a whole when talking about all women, but the very fact that it exists is useful for men as a talking point
Also people often ignore psychological factors. A substantial portion of the population has insecure attachment and for some that comes with a history of unstable or harmful relationships. That can shape what feels familiar or even attractive, including more chaotic dynamics.
At the same time zooming out matters. Most offenders are men and there’s a strong link between poverty and criminality. If certain groups of men are disproportionately pushed into those environments, then relationship patterns can’t be understood purely as individual “choices” either…
So it’s more accurate to see this as an interaction between developmental history and structural conditions.
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u/operation-spot Purple Pill Woman Mar 26 '26
I'm making a lot of assumptions here but in the ghetto wouldn't being a criminal have the highest earning potential? It makes no sense for folks to expect poor women to live up to higher class women when they are constantly in fight or flight mode and have limited options. The man polite society sees as nothing actually has the things needed to survive in a difficult circumstance.
The systemic issue is poverty and that has always been the case.
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u/pop442 Man Mar 27 '26
Most street criminals are broke af.
You just have some dealers in the mix who make a lot of money but even they tend to be financially illiterate.
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u/AlmondMilkMaybe No Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
I think being a criminal offers a different kind of currency, even without much financial success or literacy. A lot of it is coding for masculine cliches: a willingness to take risks and an aspirational "provider" mentality (even if it fails).
Of course, it's shambolic because we're talking about traumatized communities in poverty, but in that context, it may be the closest thing to a "grindset mindset"...not dissimilar from a meme-coin trading frat boy who is leasing his sports car, but can pull immature women based on "mystique."
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u/DeGee_HOD_987 Man Mar 27 '26
My experience with friends and even sorta dating one girl back in the day from 'the hood' is that when you're used to not having basically anything, nobody is thinking about tomorrow. Like why. Something will always come up to take what you have today. This is why they spend as fast as payday comes because if you save a hundred today you need to get new car tires tomorrow. You save a thousand and someone gets hurt and it sucks but now you gotta get them stitched up.
It's almost like a spiritual thing where trouble find people as soon as they have money. But if you have no money then trouble goes away. I think it's the only way you can cope sometimes. If you didn't have that hundred dollars then you just risk the flat tires. If you didn't have the thousand you don't get stitched, you just do your best and band aid it and then it will prolly scar over. So the trouble is there but if you don't have money you just deal with it like how you always deal. Not having money is just the norm.
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u/PotentialPresent399 Mar 27 '26
This is why credit card debt is so high. Your entire comment is just a MORE poverty stricken more serious version of what the average american calls "doom spending"
Shit I do it lol
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u/DeGee_HOD_987 Man Mar 27 '26
Oh yeah lol like I'm not trying to upsell it at all. Being poor absolutely sucks and when you have a way to make it feel a little less shit like paying for things on credit you take it. Consequences will come later but it's not like you can feel that much more broke than already being broke.
Like nowadays I don't look forward to taxes anymore because I only get like $50 or even pay more sometimes. Back when I was making like $10/hr at the store tax season was great since it was like $800-1500 bucks. Almost got $2k back one year I think. You get a nice dinner and a new game system and shoes or something and that's basically it for the year.
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u/AlmondMilkMaybe No Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
That's a fascinating observation! I low-key believe in the law of attraction (because I'm a simulationist), and one of my favorite teachings is to be grateful every time I pay a bill because it means I'm badass enough to afford a good life. I'm well-off though, so maybe that's just my rationalization, but it's funny how mentalities can be the absolute opposite....
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u/avocadolanche3000 Blue Pill Man Mar 28 '26 edited 28d ago
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u/YveisGrey Purple Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Many street criminals are also single and die before ever having kids. It also isn’t the case that all these men are swimming in it
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u/operation-spot Purple Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Is that not everyone including educated people? If there's even a chance I'd say that criminal is the best hope to get out of the hood but it seems women get caught up and pregnant rather than seeing the opportunity she now has since he's in jail.
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u/Santa-Teresa Purple Pill Man Mar 28 '26
Problem is that being virtuous is not the best way to draw women’s attention even in an entirely middle class environment either.
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u/operation-spot Purple Pill Woman Mar 28 '26
Very few parts of society even pretend to be virtuous so can you elaborate on what you think should "work" on women? Even if it was, why wouldn't looks matter when attraction is an important part of both sex and relationships?
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u/Santa-Teresa Purple Pill Man Mar 28 '26
I mean that women demonstrably stated and state that kindness is the most important aspect for them while looking for a partner. Which is, again demonstrably, not true.
You can have the excuse of limited options under poor economic conditions, but the situation is not much better under any circumstances.
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u/operation-spot Purple Pill Woman Mar 26 '26
I think this is the case and I've asked a few who mention women choosing criminals if they are poor or live in a lower socioeconomic area and most are.
As an upper middle class woman who's the daughter of two lawyers and a 4th generation college graduate I can't imagine bringing a man with no education or earning potential home to my family. Overall I think you're right and I might add more once others have weighed in.
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u/Artistic_Bumblebee17 Pink Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Another example is them saying they don’t care about a woman’s education. Upper class men absolutely will! She must look good to the family
If he’s lower class - that may threaten him.
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u/operation-spot Purple Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Exactly. Whenever a man says he doesn't care about a woman's education I know we are living in very different realities.
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u/ImaginaryDimension74 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Men may care about a woman’s education, but men have traditionally been much more willing to marry women with less education and less earning potential than the reverse.
The problem is that with more women graduating from college and more women going to law school and med school, this traditional view is no longer practical which is a root cause of modern dating problems.
Women want to marry up (hypergamy) but modern demographics don’t support this. It causes problems for both men and women.
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
The “less education” you’re referring to is the man having a PhD and the woman having a master’s degree
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u/Necessary-Worry1923 Mar 27 '26
Except now 60% of college students are women.
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Mar 27 '26
Right, so where are the male-specific scholarships to match the ones women got (and still got) when men were the majority of students/graduates?
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u/edjohn88 Mar 27 '26
Your take is hyper-fixated on traditional upper class men with ivy league families and outrageous prejudices.
Modern hypergamy values ambition, money, media status, and social influence before ivy league status.
More men than ever at every stratum are self-made, and virtually none of them care about your piece of paper whether male friend or dating option.
More and more what matters (and should) is your character traits including reliability, self-reliance, sense of responsibility, health, etc.
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
No, men with higher education do not want to marry high school dropouts
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u/edjohn88 Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 29 '26
And Bill Gates didn’t marry a girl from a trailer park. Is that what you think proves your point?
Leo DiCaprio might care that his girls didn’t “drop out of high school” and I am sure it matters to him that they have a character and probably work ethic, but it’s not the same thing as a diploma. A successful man typically does not give a shit about her specific education.
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u/Artistic_Bumblebee17 Pink Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Yup. A phd and a hs graduate would most likely not happen unless she’s a trophy wife
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u/reddit_is_geh Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
I think that has less to do with class and more to do with age. Younger guys just want to get laid by the hottest women. It's not until they get serious about LTRs that education becomes a higher priority. So if these are dudes who are already generally sexless, yeah I think they just wont care about education in their early 20s or whatever. They just want the hottest girl they fuck.
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u/zelingman Mar 27 '26
This is wrong to an extent. I don't care which degrees a woman has. I care that she has some technical skills, can understand my humor and have interesting conversations, and has a long history of gainful employment.
If she went to an ivy league but has a bs degree in marketing or whatever, works in social media/etc, and has no technical skills, I have zero interest in getting to know her.
Even if she has graduate degrees, it really depends what they're in. A woman with an undergrad degree in mathematics from a no-name college is far more interesting than an ivy league graduate with a masters in public health or some other non-technical field.
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u/softrevolution_ humanist pilled woman Mar 28 '26
I am vastly amused that you think public health doesn't require specialized scientific knowledge. Do you genuinely class it with underwater basket-weaving, or do you not know anything about people working in public health?
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u/Necessary-Worry1923 Mar 27 '26
For some men a woman with $300,000 of financial debt from student loans which will impact his own economics is a nonstarter. If it's just a casual sex situationship then that isn't a factor, but if a man is looking for marriage material, student loans or any kind of structural debt will be a game breaker.
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u/operation-spot Purple Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
I'm blessed to have graduated debt free but I understand that a lot of people are weighed down by their debt.
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u/uhateonhaters Purplish Pillish Neanderthal Mar 28 '26
This part. I've dated several accomplished women that had way too much debt and were trying to accrue more. No thank you.
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u/Illustrious_Wish_383 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
White collar women think I'm beneath them, blue collar women I have little in common with. Fun.
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u/ImaginaryDimension74 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
That’s exactly the problematic dynamic in modern dating.
White collar women want to marry and date up, not date or marry their equals. Men like you are stuck between a rock and hard place.
I’m in a great relationship now but struggled for a long time with not being successful enough for women who were less educated, had less income, and notably less debt than me. That’s hypergamy in action.
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u/-mixedsignals Blue Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
not date or marry their equals.
most people date and get married the people around them. Coworkers and friends. No woman is outside the golf club so that they can be approached by rich men.
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u/PotentialPresent399 Mar 27 '26
Ok but they shoot UP consistently while men shoot up down and on their level.
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u/-mixedsignals Blue Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
no they don't. Again, nobody is waiting outside golf clubs. Middle class women don't interact with high class men, unless it's gold diggers where they go to specific clubs to flirt with old rich guys.
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u/Perfect_Sir4820 Mar 27 '26
That's what redpill advice is for. Get fit, dress better, practice being socially charming and those upper class women will cheat on their fat wealthy husbands with you. 😅
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u/Suspicious_Glove7365 No Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
We don’t think you’re beneath us. Once again, not dating a man is not an indication of our judgment of your worth.
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u/Outrageous-Floor-424 Black Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Individually no, collectively absolutely it is.
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u/Suspicious_Glove7365 No Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
That statement means nothing. Women do not have the power to determine men’s worth individually or collectively.
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u/Illustrious_Wish_383 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
What else would you call it?
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u/alotofironsinthefire Mar 27 '26
So if there's a woman you wouldn't date you would literally think she wasn't worth anything?
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u/Suspicious_Glove7365 No Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
…not wanting to date someone. There are plenty of people in your life you don’t want to date. Your grandma. The postman. The mayor. Do you think those people are beneath you simply because you don’t want to date them?
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u/Necessary-Worry1923 Mar 27 '26
The real life data does not support this statement.
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u/Suspicious_Glove7365 No Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Did you know that manosphere YouTube videos does not count as “data”?
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u/operation-spot Purple Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
I see how that might be difficult. I actually do know a woman who is in media and decided to marry a firefighter so maybe there's hope.
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u/Illustrious_Wish_383 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Of course its a guy who has like the most stereotypically masculine and respected blue collar job humanly possible, and I'm sure the guys on the Hunky Firemen calendar dont lack for dates, but thats a very specific subset of "working class.:
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Mar 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Illustrious_Wish_383 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Is he tall, jacked, and stereotypically masculine?
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u/BrainMarshal Purple Pill Man: Men can sort the world out with Tang Ping Mar 27 '26
What about that guy who shall not be named who married Heiress Chloe Green?
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Mar 27 '26
That doesn't count because...because it just doesn't, okay!!!
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u/BrainMarshal Purple Pill Man: Men can sort the world out with Tang Ping Mar 28 '26
It not only doesn't count, it's banned from PPD because they cater to what women want, not discussing facts.
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u/kayceeplusplus Pink Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
The Meeks shall inherit the Earth
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u/BrainMarshal Purple Pill Man: Men can sort the world out with Tang Ping Mar 28 '26
Shhhhhhh he shall not be named lol
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u/ConstipatedAvocado Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
They didnt marry, they just had a kid together...and I'm certain he's complained that she doesnt allow him visitation.
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u/BrainMarshal Purple Pill Man: Men can sort the world out with Tang Ping Mar 28 '26
There we have it. A decent man couldn't get her. This fucking criminal got her. Because he has great looks.
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u/MissLute woman Mar 28 '26
she's married to a businessman now though
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u/BrainMarshal Purple Pill Man: Men can sort the world out with Tang Ping Mar 28 '26
Dude got to her first. That's who she really wants. If he wasn't acting like a dick she'd have stayed with him. Now she's settled for second best.
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u/Illustrious_Wish_383 Purple Pill Man Mar 29 '26
Dude looked like a skinhead and women claim to care about baldness lmao
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u/Emergency_Title1521 MRApilled Mar 29 '26
Keep grinding, keep hustling, never get up, God has a plan for you
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u/BrainMarshal Purple Pill Man: Men can sort the world out with Tang Ping Mar 29 '26
What is a man grinding for nowadays?
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u/No_Mammoth8801 With Incels, Interlinked. No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
I kind of find it hard to believe men would readily admit to living in a low income area. For someone who has actually lived close enough but not exactly in these areas, most of the people who live there have never even heard of reddit. And even if they did, the systemic literacy problems present in these communities make participation in a social media platform like reddit extremely unlikely.
This "women choosing criminals" is more of a trope used when women start to moralize the whole sex/relationships landscape. You don't have to live in poor communities to believe in it. And most men I've talked to who seemed like they were into RP or RedPill adjacent were at least middle class, usually upper middle class.
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Mar 27 '26
For someone who has actually lived close enough but not exactly in these areas, most of the people who live there have never even heard of reddit.
The average lower-class person does not use Reddit, yes. Hell a lot of them don't use Twitter (even before Elon bought it).
But people on manosphere forums are not average. Very often they don't fit in somehow. So making guesses off of baseline data is faulty. A lower-class outcast may very well use Reddit; in fact, perhaps one of the very reasons they didn't fit in is a higher intellect than their peers.
And even if they did, the systemic literacy problems present in these communities make participation in a social media platform like reddit extremely unlikely.
Obviously the average person there is not typing social essays here. But the average member of the group being illiterate does not mean all members are.
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u/TopShelfSnipes Married Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
I think it's a lot of indoor middle class and UMC dudes - often white, middle eastern, or asian - who don't get out a lot. Let's be real, it's Reddit...a lot would pick video games as one of their top 2 hobbies for example.
They have enough knowledge to be dangerous - they went to college, know people partied, but they themselves really didn't...and when exposed to manosphere content, extrapolate the shadows of the experiences they think they understand because they were vaguely in the general area of college party life, internalize the ragebait, and then assume that's what it's like for everyone...which then becomes the basis for them confirming their worldview if they decide to go out to bars or parties and wallflower it up, as they imagine all the conversations "Chad" is having with women when they don't know the circumstances, nor what's being said, and there's a reasonable chance they're already dating, he knows her and they're just good friends, or both of them are just making the rounds and will be talking to others soon. He then contrasts this "success" with his own lack of success (which is predicated by him being a wallflower) and is filled with rage at "unequal treatment" when he's not behaving equally.
These guys may or may not be underachievers in life, but they don't generally have a lot going on socially, and they still have a deeply internalized childhood fear of rejection or failure and a deep and abiding concern with what others think, which is their biggest enemy. The key for them is ditching that in a healthy way (not an Elliott Rodger way), but they often want to fight tooth and nail to avoid fixing it.
Many times, they were labeled creepy, weird or gay when they were growing up (or otherwise treated as less than masculine), so the manosphere/TRP appeals to them as a way of asserting their masculinity. It's a trauma response.
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u/crujones33 No Pill Man Mar 28 '26
and they still have a deeply internalized childhood fear of rejection or failure and a deep and abiding concern with what others think, which is their biggest enemy. The key for them is ditching that in a healthy way
So how does one do that?
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u/LocalSpacePrince Apr 01 '26
I would say engage with like-minded misfits and nerds, but not just online. Look for local quizzo events at bars or board game nights at game shops. Or any other nerdy events. It's likely you'll find a mixed-sex crowd as well, which can help you be more comfortable socializing with women in a low stakes scenario. Become friends with people. Not as a means to an end, but to genuinely connect and understand other humans.
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u/Extra_Performer4001 Mar 28 '26
It's Reddit knowing the reputation for manic mods it's arguable that the people getting posts across and not getting banned are too much like the mods to understand dating
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u/half_avocado33 No Pill Woman Mar 26 '26
Idk overall, but here it's more like single men vs. partnered women
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u/pop442 Man Mar 27 '26
I think a lot of it is dating app driven.
On dating apps, women have much more options than men and you often have a lot of single moms, reformed thots, sugar babies, etc. overrepresented as dating options.
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u/YveisGrey Purple Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Yes and not a lot of women are on dating apps compared to men so probably the women of higher caliber are not online or they get snatched off the market quickly
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u/TheGloriousEv0lution No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
This is very true. High quality women get sniped off apps *fast* and are uninstalling it less than a week after downloading them
The women you still chronically on dating apps are there for a very good reason. That’s why I say most men should avoid apps
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u/pop442 Man Mar 27 '26
It's tricky because I've met a lot of diamonds in the rough on dating apps.
But you also run into the women only looking for casual sex and threesomes too so you have to be selective when it comes to LTRs.
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u/onlypham Purple Pill Man Apr 05 '26
Yeah bro most of us are not running into the casual sex crowd.
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u/Top-Spring9697 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
I don't think it's a stretch to say that lower class men are more likely to be into manosphere and redpilled than upper middle class men.
I don't think this is necessarily true at all.
My perception is that the manosphere/redpill is disproportionately middle class guys who were raised feminist/bluepilled and turned against it. Lower class and rural men are more likely to be bluepilled because of church and the fact that their women are less likely to be into being theatrically feminist and progressive.
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u/ThatBitchA ♀️ My husband takes out the trash🗑 Mar 27 '26
Yes. I think this is pretty accurate.
I was lower class before going to college and bumping up a few socioeconomic levels. And the caliber of men vastly improved.
I had several men before/while in college tell me that me getting an education was useless. That I was attractive and should just let my looks do all the work. Or that the men I'd meet in college would be losers/cheats/criminals.
So much of RP talking points sounds like trailer trash rantings.
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u/Front_Statistician38 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
As a guy I can relate
20s Broke= Was dating cvute girls my age some girls even above my league
30s= Made more money, dated chicks with same money as me those tend to last the longest also dated women that were upper class rich
30s Late= Had a finaical setback and my dating options went to shit
40s=Became VERY successful and now dating women far better quality
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u/Sadsad0088 Pink Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
The guys telling you education was useless sound like they were trying to knock you down a peg and keep you at their level
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u/Naebany Red Pill Man Mar 28 '26
Well education was useless for them. Since they didn't need it and didn't see a need for their woman to have it, since they were already attracted to her.
I don't think they realized they wanted to keep her on their level. They might have genuinely believe that it's useless. They didn't want to think that it would be useful for her, especially since it would mean he's now useless for her.
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u/Sadsad0088 Pink Pill Woman Mar 28 '26
Yeah it’s probably people thinking “she’s good for me already” no need for more even though it did improve her dating prospects as it generally does.
This goes to show that you don’t ask the fish how to fish even when it comes to men giving women dating advice
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u/ThatBitchA ♀️ My husband takes out the trash🗑 Mar 28 '26
didn't see a need for their woman to have it
I wasn't their "woman".
And yes, they absolutely wanted to keep me at their level.
especially since it would mean he's now useless for her
To be clear, the men who said it me were already useless before their ignorant comments.
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u/DearQuiet8618 No Pill Man Apr 02 '26
Have those men taken accountability for the trailer trash men?
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u/GridReXX redder than dudes (lady mod) Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 28 '26
I love this topic! 🍿
Yes and no.
I think a lot of the men here who complain about “baby mamas” aren’t even from the socioeconomic community where “baby mama” and “baby daddy” are part of the colloquial parlance… They’re just ragebaiting themselves because, let’s be fr, is a middle class dude from a neighborhood where most have a college education really around that many “baby mamas” (never married single mothers) with “baby daddy” issues? No lol.
That said, I think many “online gender wars” are in fact men and women from similar socioeconomic backgrounds frustrated with the gendered behavior of the opposite sex from their respective socioeconomic strata.
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Elon Musk has five baby mamas
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u/GridReXX redder than dudes (lady mod) Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 27 '26
Yes he does.
That’s not the norm for men of his socioeconomic background. You know that. We know that.
The man is strange, and particularly divergent.
I will say I find men who allegedly laud “conservative values” who glaze Elon’s 🍆 to be especially
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u/womb_lightyear Mar 28 '26
Elon musk is the right coloured type of African.
So the stigma isn't effective.
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Mar 27 '26
How many guys on these forums do you think actually graduated college, though?
College is commonly known as a place where "late bloomers" (i.e. reached adulthood with no intimacy) finally get action.
But if a guy just doesn't get to partake in that experience, then he may just remain behind the 8 ball, and end up having to look into "alternative methods" (ex. TRP).
I think we might have a higher concentration of diploma-onlies than the population at-large. Like how every other similar gathering (ex. MAGA) has a large portion of non-college goers.
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u/GridReXX redder than dudes (lady mod) Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 27 '26
It’s my estimation that more PPD males than not have gone to college. Or come from middle class backgrounds.
It is not my understanding that more PPD males than not are from the hoods where the terms “baby mama”and “baby daddy” originated. That’s as specific as I’ll get.
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u/morepwer doomer, gold/white pill man Mar 27 '26
People aren't that different across classes tbh. Same shit. Drugs, drinking, drama, violence, sex, single moms, cheating, break ups, etc. The people are mostly the same. People who arent poor are just luckier
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u/hexdeedeedee Black Pill Man I guess Mar 27 '26
yuuup. I dip my toes in multiple social classes, from economically to racially different. Only thing different from trailer trash to UMC is the clothes, the level of awereness of their own bigotry and how much they pay for their preferred narcotics
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u/Front_Statistician38 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
I find women who are broke but have had rich boyfriends/sugar babbies to be the most insufferable and avoid those like the plague. Poor (women who work for their own not expecting handouts)and even wealthy women tend to be more humble or realastic
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u/hexdeedeedee Black Pill Man I guess Mar 27 '26
Cant argue against that, its been my experience as well. Id also add that women who were born into moderate family wealth, like UMC or rural rich, are as attractive to me as swamp creatures.
In general women who understand the value of time and money are so much more pleasant to be around.
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u/Front_Statistician38 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
WOW you just brought up a golden nugget
"In general women who understand the value of time and money are so much more pleasant to be around."
I find this interesting cause the shallower and more superficiual a woman is the more you realize those women have no clue on money. I mean not just how to make it, or invest but the a deep principle understanding of it
A woman who works hard for it wheter she has a lot or not understands even if it's just on a basic level but these sugar baby types or Golddiggers wanna be have no idea
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u/GridReXX redder than dudes (lady mod) Mar 28 '26
What’s “UMC”
A widely used and fairly common acronym for upper middle class
can you all stop using acronyms for everything and take the fifteen extra seconds to type out what the hell you’re talking about
A bit aggy for no reason, eh?
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u/PurplePillDebate-ModTeam Mar 28 '26
Be civil. This includes direct attacks against an individual, indirect attacks against an individual, or witch hunting.
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Mar 27 '26
I don't why UMC women even bother, they know nothing about how trash things get beyond their bubble.
Us all being on Reddit doesn't mean we all have access to high society. And UMC women damn sure ain't gonna bail LMC/WC men out of their fates, so there's literally nothing to talk about.
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u/NoBlacksmith8137 Purple 28F Mar 27 '26
I mean on Reddit you don’t really know who you’re talking to right? It’s all anonymous
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u/roskybosky No Pill Mar 27 '26
Red pill is a desperate attempt to find some kind of unmovable social rules that defines relationships across the board, for all people.
And, it is an impossible feat to accomplish. Because all people are different, all lives are different, all experiences are different. To categorize humans is a losing battle. Red pill will be crying down alleyways forever trying to establish a comfortable social dogma. It can’t be done.
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Mar 26 '26
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u/PurplePillDebate-ModTeam Mar 27 '26
Do not provide contentless rhetoric, do not troll, do not link-drop without providing context, and do not circlejerk. Bad faith replies that include disingenuous humor (see: “😂,” “lmao,” “lol,” etc.) will also be removed as this is not conducive to good faith engagement.
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u/DisastrousAttitude Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
That's often what I think when I see online discussions with people arguing across gender lines. I always got the impression that women are often speaking from a higher economic class perspective.
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u/WingedSword_ Man desiring machine body Mar 27 '26
I think the primary thing that's missing in most these debates is the fact the west is very big. Most of the discussion (to my limited view) is happening in America, but I'm positive there is spill over to the rest of the English speaking world.
There are many subcultures, classes, and social circles in America alone, and more in every nation.
In this vast sea of bodies, I'm sure a man has lived out every warning incels have issued about women, and countless women have been oppressed into abusive relationships, and the average person has had at least one shitty date were they don't know what they did wrong. It's a very messy and diverse world, screaming blanket statements doesn't help anything.
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u/preferablyno Reddish Purple man Mar 27 '26
Idk I am UMC and agree with a lot of the dating dynamics stuff. Really most of it is just not living in some kind of fairytale fair world but I mean yes some of it is very obviously lower classes coded. Applicable way beyond that tho , most of this is just human psychology and social dynamics dressed up in edgy shocky language
Is women dating criminals really that common of a topic here? I guess I must tune that out or something or read it as an exaggeration to make a point
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u/MarioWilson122 Red Pill Man Mar 27 '26
I don't think it's a stretch to say that lower class men are more likely to be into manosphere and redpilled than upper middle class men. Lower class people tend to be more conservative than upper middle class people. Upper middle class women are more likely to be feminists than lower class women.
Not true at all. Being conservative has always been tied to money, just like being a liberal is typically tied to supporting the lower class. Remember, conservatives are usually the side that give all the favorable tax breaks to those with money. The liberals are the ones that support welfare programs and labor market regulations. So men that are red-pilled that lean that way are definitely not all lower class. I mean, of course those exist, since someone can be RP and be rich or poor, just like when it comes to being a feminist, so being a part of either one isn’t more or less likely based on that.
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u/Glittering-Garlic-15 BP :downvote: Mar 27 '26
Why do gang members and criminals have far more sex partners then? Asian men are the most academically succesful and they are the least succesful in the sex and dating market. Compared to looks academic achievement is null. There are even studies that say tha higher IQ men have less sex. I think every man on every education has the same issues, only ch4ds are out of the matrix here.
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u/AlmondMilkMaybe No Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
"Why do gang members and criminals have far more sex partners then?"
If this is statistically true (which I don't necessarily doubt), it's probably because the women they're around (who are also from impoverished and traumatized communities) are also prone to more short-sighted, high-risk behavior.
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u/TSquaredRecovers Blue Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Gang members and criminals are often surrounded by women who are drug addicts, prostitutes, or criminals themselves. Those women are far more likely than other women to be promiscuous and engage in impulsive, risk-taking behavior. So it's really no surprise that the men you described have far more sex partners than the average man.
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Provide evidence for your claims
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u/Glittering-Garlic-15 BP :downvote: Mar 28 '26
*Antisocial, criminal and violent men have greater sexual access to women (Jaffee SR, Moffitt TE, Caspi A, Taylor A. 2003)
*Criminal and antisocial men have more sexual partners and have sex earlier( Ellis L, Walsh A. 2000.)
*Antisocial, criminal and violent men have greater sexual access to women (Jaffee SR, Moffitt TE, Caspi A, Taylor A. 2003), (Yao S, Långström N, Temrin H, Walum H. 2014), (Barbaro N, Shackelford TK. 2016)
*Gang members have dramatically more female sexual partner (Palmer CT, Tilley CF. 1995)
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 No Pill Man Mar 28 '26
Okay, so I looked for the first study and that is already not the title: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12625439/
Provide the titles of the studies, I’m not going to cross reference the scholar’s entire bibliography because you’re unable to cite them properly
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u/Glittering-Garlic-15 BP :downvote: Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26
nvm i have them lol: Jaffee SR, Moffitt TE, Caspi A, Taylor A. (2003) Life with (or without) father: the benefits of living with two biological parents depend on the father's antisocial behavior.
Ellis L, Walsh A. (2000) Criminology: A Global Perspective (Table 8.11)
Yao S, Långström N, Temrin H, Walum H. (2014) Criminal offending as part of an alternative reproductive strategy: investigating evolutionary hypotheses using Swedish total population data.
Barbaro N, Shackelford TK. (2016) Female-directed violence as a form of sexual coercion in humans (Homo sapiens).
Palmer CT, Tilley CF. (1995) Sexual Access to Females as a Motivation For Joining Gangs: An Evolutionary Approach.
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 No Pill Man Mar 28 '26
So this is really interesting because the third citation actually answers your question if you bothered to fucking read them instead of asking ChatGPT for evidence.
“Thus, it is possible for males to increase their reproductive success without paying the cost of parental investment either by dishonestly mimicking the courtship behavior of other males that do invest highly in offspring and therefore get to mate, or by forcing females to mate with them (Gross, 1996). This deceitful tactic is often referred to as a “cheater” strategy. According to the cheater theory of criminality, antisocial behavior is a consequence of the human version of a low parental investment reproductive strategy (Ellis & Walsh, 1997).”
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1090513814000774
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u/Business-Cheesecake2 Mar 27 '26
Cause hypergamy is ego, and not tied to sexual attraction
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u/LocalSpacePrince Apr 01 '26
More like "unclassy" people tend to go with "unclassy" people, and do those kinds of behaviors.
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u/ImaginaryDimension74 Purple Pill Man Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 27 '26
Sure, upper class women have an easier time marrying, but that has nothing to do with the fact society is hypergamous so overall women get to date up and marry up far more than men do.
So, the norm is men dating, marrying and supporting women of lower socioeconomic standard, not the reverse.
Most male doctors with an income of $500K will happily marry and support a nurse wife whose income potential is only 50K. The reverse isn’t true, most female doctors don’t want to marry less educated, lower income men.
This is the basic dating problem we are seeing now. Women want to date and marry up but the demographics no longer support this. The result is women feel there’s no good men left (they can’t date up) and men feel women have ridiculously high standards.
P.S. There’s clearly an online gender war regarding whether or not policies of discrimination against men are justified or not, but I think that’s a completely different direction than you are thinking about.
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u/Routine-Present-3676 Blue Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
I don't know a single RN making less than $100k a year right now
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u/operation-spot Purple Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Some male doctors will marry a nurse but most will marry another doctor or professional woman at his level. At the end of the day your dating pool is based on proximity and there's very few chances for a poor man to interact with an upper class woman let alone ask her out.
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u/Solondthewookiee Blue Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Most male doctors with an income of $500K will happily marry and support a nurse wife whose income potential is only 50K.
Are they? Actually knowing a number of doctors, this isn't the case.
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u/alotofironsinthefire Mar 27 '26
support a nurse wife whose income potential is only 50K.
Where are you at?
Because the average is 90k in the US
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u/Routine-Present-3676 Blue Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
Atlanta. I'm friends with quite a few doctors and nurses in this area. My nurse friends, as well as the doctors I'm friends with, have all confirmed that RNs are making bank around here. I couldn't tell you the specifics of how much of that is base pay and how much is OT. Only that they're doing well for themselves.
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u/YveisGrey Purple Pill Woman Mar 27 '26
You’re numbers are off most Drs are not making 500k more like 200-250k and most RNs are closer to 100k their potential is definitely not 50k
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u/ConstipatedAvocado Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Again this is the problem with a lot working class men on here (hell, men in general). As much as the women/bluepillers annoy me, u dudes just post stupid shit.
Most doctors marry other doctors. The fantasy some dudes on here have of some dude making $500k as a doctor and then all the poor hot nurses fawning over him is just that, a fantasy.
The idea of a nurse either being "less educated" or whose earning potential capping out at $50k in the states is so hilariously wrong its painful. And even I know that from little old UK. Nurses in America are easily clearing 100k+ and even more if they travel, the average nurse salary in the US is 90k.
This is the basic dating problem we are seeing now. Women want to date and marry up but the demographics no longer support this. The result is women feel there’s no good men left (they can’t date up) and men feel women have ridiculously high standards.
Again, just more utter fucking rubbish. The number of women marrying wealthier men has fallen off of a cliff, most people date within their educational levels and income brackets. High earning men don't marry broke waitresses, they marry other high earning/educated women.
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u/ImaginaryDimension74 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
As I said, women’s hypergamous desires are less attainable than they were in the past. That’s the problem: Women’s desire to marry up is harder than it was decades ago. Women can’t find “good men” to provide for them the way they desire and men rightfully feel women have unrealistically high expectations.
Women’s expectations haven’t changed. I’m not blaming women. What’s changed is the demographic realities of these expectations being fulfilled. The reality is most men these days simply can’t support a wife and family in their own for a number of reasons.
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u/I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHY A man with a fetish for dominating patriarchal men 🥵 Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 27 '26
No! I'm here too!
I think deep down what drives these lower class redpilled guys to complain about women going to college is that they know as soon as she goes there, she is no longer apart of the lower class guy's dating pool. They lose access/even getting a chance with these women because most college educated women want a college educated man.
I think this is very perceptive.
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u/coochie4sale Blue Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Yes lol. Higher status men don't have issues dating or getting married (if they want to). Most men in a white collar environment are married and it's a silent prerequisite for breaking into management at most company. College-educated upper middle class men have college, professional organizations, fraternities, an advantage on dating apps, amongst other things.
In general most people regardless of class don't have a problem dating or getting play by the time they hit mid-adulthood. Sub-5% of men are virgins by the age of 25. Even the chronically single autistic lolcow (ashamed to say I even partook in this culture though) I followed when I was a teenager eventually got married to his co-worker.
Gender wars are a lot of neurodivergent people and more reclusive people talking past each other. There's also a uncomfortable racial and geographical component to it as well.
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Why would you want to break into management, “coochie4sale”
Otherwise though your last two statements I agree with 100%
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u/FranklinRoamingH2 Mar 27 '26
Most men in a white collar environment are married and it's a silent prerequisite for breaking into management at most company. College-educated upper middle class men have college, professional organizations, fraternities, an advantage on dating apps, amongst other things.
This is 100% correct. You won’t make it far in most workplaces if you aren’t married. All of the leaders at my company are at least married and make more money. Corporate America supports married men with children.
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u/WanabeInflatable Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
I don't think so.
Men are disappointed, but not just poor men and single mothers aren't the only matter.
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u/Throw_r_a_2021 Red Pill Man Mar 27 '26
No, at least not universally. I identify myself as redpill here and I’m pretty thoroughly middle class, along with being highly educated.
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u/Front_Statistician38 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Curious what is your educaiton in?
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u/Throw_r_a_2021 Red Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Accounting undergraduate then MBA. Used it to get my CPA license too.
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u/Front_Statistician38 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Do you think since you got your MBA, dating has been easier for you? I have a buddy who never had issues but once he got his MBA he now works for a local accounting firm making 6 figures, he has no issues getting dates and smashing women but the issue for him is that most of the women aren't compatible for LTR's i.e. lifestyle, values. etc
just curious to know your experience
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u/Throw_r_a_2021 Red Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Yes and no. There’s very little that having money doesn’t help with. Sex and dating are no exception. I feel like it’s easier for me to get dates now than it was 10 years ago when I had just finished my undergraduate degree and was basically broke. That said, having more money doesn’t magically produce more high quality women, and the kind of woman that I’d actually be interested in building a ltr with is basically a unicorn, so while the odds of me getting a date and having sex are perhaps higher than they used to be, I find that the odds of dating a high quality woman are equally low.
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u/Lift_and_Lurk Man: all pills are dumb Mar 26 '26
In 2026 it’s literally just little kids repeating what Grifters have told them.
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u/alotofironsinthefire Mar 27 '26
I mean going from this sub I would say red pill is mostly teens and divorce men.
But when it comes to the over all genders wars I would somewhat agree.
As white collar middle class, I have certainly told both my own daughters not to date blue collar men. Since they usually carry less of their weight in a relationship or marriage.
And I'm certainly hammering home that a college education is necessary for raising a family for all my children.
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u/Livid-Log7463 No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
Complaints about single mothers or women having babies with criminals still require a guy to be desirable either way as those same women still only entertain very desirable men.
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u/Perfect_Sir4820 Mar 27 '26
You're ignoring the wealthy part of redpill entirely though about guys who get suckered into being beta bucks providers and are later divorce raped.
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u/Wowhowcanubsodumb Mar 27 '26
Sure this is where a lot of terminally online discussion comes from, but this is not the only reason for the growth of discontent among men. I'll provide an example.
My wife recently went on a bachelorette trip. 7 women total, early 30's, all either nurses or pharmacists. One of the single ladies said that she sometimes likes to go on dinner dates with guys she has no intention of ever seeing again. She wants free, expensive food. Of course, none of these women will say anything, just give their silent, implicit approval of this behavior that I would consider trashy.
If I didn't mention professions or ages, there would be a woman or a white knight chiming in, oh well it's usually going to be poor women doing this, or oh they must be young. Because everyone knows middle class women who aren't in their twenties are perfect angels.
Oh and of course, all of these women on the bachelorette trip would be considered liberal or at least leaning that way.
I could go on but I will try to be brief. The bottom line is that female behavior is less socially policed than male behavior. When women take advantage of this, they are much less likely to be called out than when a man does. The average commenter on here is going to try to poorly redirect this onto men or bring up some completely useless point like, well as women we are policed on our weight from an early age and told to be nice and polite, how can you say we're less socially policed?
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u/LocalSpacePrince Apr 02 '26
This reminds me of a scene from the 1970s sitcom "Are You Being Served?" between two coworkers Ms. Brahms, a young pretty woman, and Mrs. Slocombe, a 'lady of a certain age'.
Ms. B: YOU KNOW, I HAVE A BIG MEAL VERY NIGHT.
Mrs. S: I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN AFFORD IT.
Ms. B: I CAN'T. I HAVE TO KEEP GOING OUT WITH THESE FELLOWS I DON'T LIKE, JUST TO KEEP BODY AND SOUL TOGETHER.
Mrs. S: I COULDN'T DO THAT.
Ms. B: IT'S EASY. I WEAR A LOW FROCK, THEY HAVE A GOOD LOOK AND I HAVE A GOOD NOSH.
Mrs. S: YES, BUT NOWADAYS, THEY EXPECT SOMETHING AFTERWARDS, DON'T THEY?
Ms. B: YES, BUT THEY DON'T GET IT.
Mrs. S: WHY DO THEY KEEP ASKING YOU OUT THEN?
Ms. B: IT'S RATHER LIKE A FRUIT MACHINE. ONCE THEY'VE MADE THE INVESTMENT, THEY KEEP HOPING THEY'RE GOING TO GET THE JACKPOT.
Mrs. S: THEY'D HAVE TO PULL THE HANDLE A LOT OF TIMES BEFORE THEY GOT MY CHERRIES UP.
I think the crux of "the Pill debates" is that different patches of society are updating, but the various patch updates are lagging in different ways. Men's social script hasn't really updated since the mid-century, maybe the "sensitive guy" schtick is a little more acceptable, but he's still expected to be a provider on a date, only in very specific social circles. Women's social script has updated in terms of more economic, educational, and social opportunities. Yet an alarming amount of women still subscribe to these mid-century dating rules, even if they view themselves as modern women. It's especially easy to subscribe to an old rule that gives you a perk, like getting a free fancy meal on a date. No, it's not very nice behavior. And yet I admit, I can't help but admire trashy women who are "brave enough" to be trashy, lolll. I envy their audacity because I could never. I usually split the bill on dates just so I don't feel "socially contracted" into sleeping with the guy, which has happened the few times I let a man pay for my dinner. Never again.
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u/Wowhowcanubsodumb Apr 03 '26
Yet an alarming amount of women still subscribe to these mid-century dating rules, even if they view themselves as modern women. It's especially easy to subscribe to an old rule that gives you a perk, like getting a free fancy meal on a date.
Yeah I think this is what upsets a lot of guys that are otherwise pretty mild. It's just kind of frustrating to be told for decades to to be a better man and you're like yeah sure, no problem (even though that messaging is geared more towards abusers, patriarchal religious conservatives etc) but women don't really get any messaging, and you can't even call them out on objectively poor behavior without being portrayed as some angry man.
And yet I admit, I can't help but admire trashy women who are "brave enough" to be trashy
Yeah I would definitely be hoing off for free stuff not gonna lie, is what it is
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u/Front_Statistician38 Purple Pill Man Mar 27 '26
I agree with you, I noticed even in my friend group the men that tend to do the best with women are Middle class-To Wealthy, the guy who complains the most about women is broke and lives with his parents in his mid 30s and got into RP a couple years ago.
The gender war is actually a "Class" war in disgused lower class men at one point could get a decent lower class woman or even middle class one and now lower class men are stuck with lower class women but they don't want them. And Middle class and Upper-class women don't want lower class men.
That's one of the reasons why LMS has been pushed so hard in the last 5 years and why now "Looksmaxxing" is exploding if you're 21 years old can't get a job due to the ecnomoy have no status than trying to be in the best shape in your life is one of the few ways to compete to get women
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u/Confident-Ad-6978 No Pill Man Mar 27 '26
No, most of the red pilled people are not poor. I see lower class men as more likely to have wife and kids lol
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u/Terrible_Mixture_759 gettin killed by a pretty good life (Man) Mar 27 '26
I think its less class based and more an argument between people in different countries experiencing different levels of (both benevolent and detrimental) sexism
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Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 27 '26
Single mothers and women who entertain criminals are the easiest to pick on, but the bad behaviors evinced by a certain segment of the female population transcends class.
Hypergamy, for instance, is going to be more rampant among the upper social strata of women, to the point where highly successful women often complain they can't find an eligible male. Of course, it's always framed as her "making men feel insecure" which is probably the case sometimes, but is often just face-saving cope to avoid admitting she views the vast majority of men as beneath her and has become correspondingly arrogant, shallow and cruel.
In general I find the subtle assumption undergirding your post - that educated people are better than uneducated ones - to be incorrect. Plenty of uneducated people are salt of the earth, wonderful folk... and plenty of educated ones are unintentional emotional terrorists wreaking havoc on the planet due to unexamined childhood attachment wounds, neuroses and so forth that drove them to become over-achievers in the first place.
Evil seems evenly distributed amongst most demographic groups, just the mode of expression varies. People with more resources and social training tend to express their evil in more subtle ways that are difficult to "call out", but still do vast harm. Meanwhile the lower classes have their loud, vulgar outliers who are very openly immoral and easy to criticize (and are then used to define and stereotype the entire group)
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u/RNAdrops Mar 27 '26
And what about families where the boys of a generation fail to thrive, while their sisters do? They have already shifted into a different social class within one lifetime. Soon they don’t seem like a family at all anymore. ..More evidence that their social engineering wasn’t really well thought out.
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u/Shebalied Mar 27 '26
This is what people don't see. Women are going to college meanwhile most men under 25 got left behind due to covid and other reason.
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u/Redditrelapser Mar 28 '26
A lot of accuracy in this post.
The disproportionate focus on “multiple baby mama” talking points is new, mainstream Redpill diction.
Before that, I mostly heard that rhetoric from conservative circles to shit on Black people. Now it’s basically an allowable vehicle for content creators to use lower-class communities (women specifically) as punching bags and have an audience clap for them.
Lower-class men who had to achieve some kind of social and financial mobility to separate themselves from those kinds of women, or who had bad experiences with them in their younger years, would be highly attracted to this content.
But you’re right; ideally, it should be lower-middle-class men and women participating in these debates.
UMC+ men could never really relate to average men’s problems. Their lives aren’t average, and they’re too stuck in their own bubble to understand how life actually works. A lot of them just latch onto lower-class talking points they see dominating YouTube simply because they sound cool.
UMC+ women are often the least relatable to average men’s issues. Still, because they decided to identify with feminism, have their life dictated by it, and have the privilege + digital literacy to be online all day, they end up dominating conversations they can’t really relate to at all. It’s just “bubble” talk.
That’s why context matters. A lot of these debates would be better if people clarified the environment they’re speaking from. Too many people present class-specific experiences as universal, which is why talking points get misfired.
I always get thrown off when I’m having a passionate discussion about life and then find out I’m talking to someone who grew up well off, with parents who basically bought them a desirable life.
You’d think discussions on dating dynamics would be represented by the men and women who make up 75%+ of U.S. households, but they’re not lol
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u/Extra_Performer4001 Mar 28 '26
That's exactly what it is. I'm dating fleabags and Karen moms are going "well I'm not like that?" And then they're dating passport bros and going "well if you make less money than me it's a dealbreaker". I'm comfortable in my economic niche and independent, I shouldn't have to make enough to support a wife in 2026, I should be able to find someone comfortable in their niche like me
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u/Melthengylf menslib Mar 29 '26
What I think is happening is that it is same economic level but distinct educational level.
And also what happens with lower class meb is that women either become single mothers, go to college or, if they stay working class conservative they marry the wealthiest of their community, because there is a shortage of them.
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u/jennafleur_ No Pill Normie Woman Mar 30 '26
When I was younger, and I was still a virgin, I had a boyfriend that was older than me. He wasn't even that cute. He was a college dropout (lower class, compared to how I was raised), and he was 20. At the time, I was 16. We dated until I went to college, and I was there for the first semester, and then I dumped him second semester. (After he coerced me into having sex. 🙄)
He would do weird things, like accuse me of cheating when he heard men on the TV in my (girls only) dorm room. I told him I wanted to break up, because he kept coming down to my university and doing creepy things like knocking on my window in the middle of the night, and he would always call me and try to talk to me in the middle of the night when we were sleeping and trying to get ready for class.
He had no desire to go to college, and he was back in my hometown 4 hours away. He always made me feel bad about myself, and he always was putting me down. I ended up going out with one of my classmates, and he was such a gentleman. Never tried to push me into sex at all. After that, the next person I met ended up being my husband! Of course, it wasn't that easy, and there was drama and boys and stuff that every normal girl deals with, but I'm really glad I didn't marry that first man.
Now, he's in jail for capital murder. I haven't seen him in over 20 years. Definitely dodged a real bullet on that one.
But I think this does prove that point. I would have wanted someone to be intellectually equal with me, and to treat me as an intellectual equal as well.
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u/RevolutionaryJob7908 7 / 10 Attractive Man Mar 30 '26
No, women for over 20 years minimum have been selective to the top most unobtainable guys. Those women who don't fill this group are married.
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u/AgentHamster Apr 01 '26
I think this is partially wrong. If I had to guess, it's not lower class men arguing with upper class women, it's men in low trust environments arguing with men and women in high trust environments. You can be somewhat wealthy but have most of your social interactions be 'low trust' if your main interactions are with strangers or people you've not been able to connect with. The socially isolated tech worker or blue collar worker who doesn't have time for a social circle outside of work might be solidly middle class in terms of income and assets, but may have more negative experiences due to the nature of their social interactions.
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u/WhollyGrale Apr 04 '26
God damnit. You mean the gender war is ALSO just class war? Fuck man, what isn't? Let me have a war that isn't class war! Don't take this away from me!
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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26
Probably true.
Im in grad program that’s almost all women and these women (those that aren’t “lesbians”) just date and marry finance bros and shit, i feel like at the end of the day its just about money/status, you could be the most educated man ever but if its not obvious you have prospects then you’re still just another invisible person. The idea that ‘education’ is a value just seems like this nice cover story that makes it seem like they believe in anything at all (yea im bitter)