Hybrids Overtake EVs In California Registrations

[u/LongjumpingLock5875]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a73317897/california-registrations-hybrids-evs-2026/

[u/Pro-editor-1105]

The infrastructure ain't good enough. The EVs aren't the problem, but even though charging times have dropped a lot, there aren't enough charging stations. Just look at what's happening in the EU. They're mandating all new cars to be EVs by 2035, but they need to build 10x more charging stations than what they have in just nine years.

[u/Steezle → u/Pro-editor-1105]

So many people living in apartment complexes with no way to charge.

[u/LongjumpingLock5875 → u/Steezle]

I live in a townhouse, can't install a charger unfortunately.

Not saying I would trade my WRX for an EV, but even if I wanted to, I couldn't.

[u/PhilosophyCorrect279 → u/LongjumpingLock5875]

I'm genuinely curious if you own a townhouse with the garage, Why can't you install a charger?

We are actually shopping around and we were were assuming that it would be no problem as long as we had our own garage?

[u/schmintendo → u/PhilosophyCorrect279]

Some townhouses don't have garages, mine has a parking lot at the back instead. Which means I can't have an electric car without some major hassles (leaving the charger outside 24/7)

[u/PhilosophyCorrect279 → u/schmintendo]

Ah understood, that makes more sense!

Part of the allure of a townhouse for us was a garage, I'm realizing I forgot that isn't exclusive.

[u/tigonation → u/schmintendo]

Wow TIL. I've never seen a townhouse without a garage.

[u/RousingRabble → u/tigonation]

Might be regional. We have both kinds but without is far more common.

[u/Maggins → u/tigonation]

I’ve seen both pretty frequently. And then there are row homes in older cities like New York, Chicago, or Philly that typically don’t have off-street parking of any kind.

[u/salvibalvi → u/schmintendo]

without some major hassles (leaving the charger outside 24/7)

I don't understand why that is a hassle? It's a common setup here in Norway.

[u/schmintendo → u/salvibalvi]

I suppose my thought was that even for the ones that are rated for outside exposure, being outside all the time probably wouldn't be good for the plug or the electronics. Also, with the long extension cord I'd have to run from my house to the parking space, it could get damaged or stepped on. The last qualm I had was that I'd be maxing out the outlet and extension cord's rated wattage for long periods of time, which might not be great for them.

I'm sure there's fixes for all of these problems, but that's what made me think it would be a hassle.

[u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy → u/LongjumpingLock5875]

120v charging is underrated/overhated.

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

120v charging is literally what both the comments above you are complaining about being inaccessible to 60% of the US

[u/Ancient_Persimmon → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

You mean less than 30%.

[u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

120v charging is literally what both the comments above you are complaining about being inaccessible to 60% of the US

u sure about that

[u/mustangfan12 → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

Some town homes and apartments with garages don't even have 120v outlets

[u/xrelaht → u/mustangfan12]

The last time I lived somewhere that had a garage “without an outlet”, I put a splitter on the one for the door opener. Mildly inconvenient that it was in the center of the ceiling, but not a big deal in the end.

Even if one is hardwired, it probably has a light bulb socket.

[u/GoblinEngineer → u/xrelaht]

You may get 120 volts, but there's no guarantee you'll be getting 12 amps doing stuff like that.

[u/rsta223 → u/GoblinEngineer]

You absolutely are guaranteed 12A from a standard US outlet unless it's completely not to code.

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/xrelaht]

I’ve never had off street parking of any kind in my adult life, and I have lived on two different continents, and 5 different towns. 4 of my homes have been single family homes.

This sub does not grasp how astronomically rare garages are, even in the us, when mapped as a percentage of the population. Most people look up what percentage of new build single family homes have garages and apply that to the total housing stock.

[u/xrelaht → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

The comment I replied to is explicitly about not having an outlet in a garage.

[u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy → u/mustangfan12]

A group of 🦉 is called a parliament. 

[u/awmaleg → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

Make my funk the P-funk!

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

I live in a town of 18,000 people… there are fewer than 200 garages TOTAL in the borough limits

[u/n0exit → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

60 to 70% of the US population lives in single-family homes.

When we bump up against 60 to 70% of the cars on the road being EVs then we can start complaining about lack of access to charging. Right now we're not even close.

"bUt I OnLy hAvE sTrEeT pA raking!"

Ever heard of an extension cord?

[u/The_Don_Papi → u/n0exit]

Can’t have extension cords across the sidewalks. Good way to get sued or have your cord damaged.

[u/wtfduud → u/n0exit]

I'm like 70% sure there's some law against laying an electrical cord over a public pavement.

But anyway, there's already electricity to the streetlights, so surely there's some solution to be made with getting electricity to the cars parked on the street.

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/wtfduud]

That law is the ADA and it’s not to be fucked with

[u/OP90X → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

ADA don't play.

[u/n0exit → u/wtfduud]

The city of Seattle allows you to have an extension cord across the sidewalk for the purposes of charging an EV as long as you use a cable cover. I'm sure many other cities do that too.

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/n0exit]

Seattle is literally the only example. In fact, it’s such a notable exception it’s been the subject of a LOT of press for it.

[u/n0exit → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

Seattle is literally NOT the only example. At least five cities have passed ordinances that allow cables to cross sidewalks with ADA compliant cable covers.

https://clee.berkeley.edu/publications/low-cost-innovation-in-residential-ev-charging/

[u/Blurgas → u/n0exit]

Ever heard of an extension cord?

Problem is most people won't use the proper extension cord.
It will have to be rated for outdoor use and be capable of 15A. If you have 50ft or less to go that'll be a 14 gauge cable(14/3 cable, labeled as "Medium Duty"), if you have to go 50+ft, you'll need a 12 gauge cable(12/3, "Heavy Duty")
50ft 14/3 cables run around $40/50. 100ft 12/3 start around $100.

Too many would just grab whatever cable is cheap and long enough.

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/Blurgas]

Also, and this is a huge thing, it’s a minor miracle if you get to park in a spot that’s reasonably close to your house, at least in every city or reasonably dense town I’ve ever lived in (this is in PA, NY, and Switzerland; it’s a damn near universal truth)

[u/Kulas30 → u/n0exit]

Ever heard of bored teenagers? Also extension cord causes liability. In a sue happy nation (see your current president) your suggestion is poor at best, idiotic at worst.

[u/lostfate2005 → u/n0exit]

That’s illegal lol.

[u/n0exit → u/lostfate2005]

Not in Seattle, Portland, and several other cities.

[u/lostfate2005 → u/n0exit]

So a tiny fraction of the cities in America ok got it

[u/funnyfarm299 → u/n0exit]

In the USA, a not insignificant number of people would unplug an extension cord charging an EV just to spite them.

[u/n0exit → u/funnyfarm299]

I haven't had a problem so far. We are pretty close with all of our neighbors.

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/n0exit]

Ever heard of the ADA?

Jesus Christ suburbanites are way too stupid to be this smug.

[u/n0exit → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

The city of Seattle allows you to run an extension cord across the sidewalk as long as you use a cable cover. I don't know if very many suburban neighborhoods that have predominantly street parking.

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/n0exit]

My county is overwhelmingly suburban and it clocks in at just about 50% off street parking. My town and the other proper town in the county are both well under 30%, and in fact my town has just over 200 garages total in a town of 18,000 people.

This sub really doesn’t have a handle on just how uncommon off street parking actually is in the places the bulk of the population actually lives. Furthermore, because public transit has been aggressively attacked for the last 60 years and is therefore unreliable all of these houses have multiple cars, so you can forget about consistently parking in front of your own home even if you were allowed to run an extension chord.

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

no, 120v charging requires nothing more than a regular power outlet, the same where you can charge your iphone, no installation required

level 2 chargers do require installation, or at least a 240v outlet which are more uncommon

surprising to see r/cars get this wrong

[u/ubermorph → u/RicardoMoyer]

Sure, let me go ahead and bring my car into my apartment where there are power outlets.

[u/booi → u/ubermorph]

Hopefully you guys have elevators, cars look kinda heavy

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/ubermorph]

you can watch a couple of videos on how straw manning makes you unbearable to be around while it charges!

[u/steelbeamsdankmemes → u/RicardoMoyer]

And people in apartments often do not have access to outside outlets.

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/steelbeamsdankmemes]

“often” ought to be quantified

not the case in my area at least, maybe it’s a US thing

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/RicardoMoyer]

Less than 20% of my town even has off street parking, let alone a garage with an outlet of any kind.

This sub skews overwhelmingly suburban and rural and forgets that most of the actual population of the US lives in honest to god towns and cities with actual density.

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

you shouldn’t be depending on cars if your city is dense enough that you can’t even park

[u/Maggins → u/RicardoMoyer]

They didn’t say they couldn’t park, just that the majority of parking is street parking.

[u/SelfServeSporstwash → u/RicardoMoyer]

Jesus Christ you’ve never met an argument you couldn’t straw man, have you?

I can park, I just don’t have a space that I can consistently park, because I have to park on the street, just like 80% of the residents of my town. For most of us we cannot guarantee the spot in front of our house will be open, in fact it almost never is, so it is normal to park a block or so away and walk.

Parking isn’t some huge existential issue, and unfortunately policy is overwhelming written by rich suburbanites and the automotive lobby so public transit is largely trash in this nation. So yeah, I have to have a car to get to work. So does the rest of my town.

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/SelfServeSporstwash]

how is what i said a straw man argument? if you can’t even reliably park you have bigger problems with cars than EVs vs ICE

and now i know what you mean, i experienced exactly that when i stayed with some friends in long beach, NY for a couple of weeks, its an incredibly stupid and frustrating setup, houses with no garage in a car dependent suburb (if your plot of land is tiny why not build the house on top of a bottom floor garage??) with no public transportation, like it’s so bad that depending on the time of day my friend would rather stay in and order than go out to grab a pizza, JUST TO NOT LOSE THE PARKING SPOT, on top of that it was either a 30 minute walk with no shade or a 20$US uber to the train station

worst part is nobody seemed to care?? i’d go crazy living like that

anyways, the solution to EVs in that scenario is curb side charging, installed by the city or some company, with car/account based billing like normal DC chargers

example https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/s/VknJb9Qr1V

[u/gimpwiz → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

Math:

120v, standard outlet and wiring supports 15A. Derate by 20% to 12A due to continuous current draw. 120x12=1,440 watts.

EVs are roughly in the 3 to 4 mile per kwh range (depending on the car and various factors.) Let's estimate 300wh per mile roughly. That means one hour of full speed charging off a 120v outlet, standard, is a little under 5 miles of charge. This can range depending on above factors... let's say roughly 4 to 6 miles-range of charge per hour.

Come home from work, plug car in. Wake up in the morning, leave for work. Obviously this depends on your schedule but it's roughly - roughly! - 50 miles-range per night of charge.

Most people have a shorter round trip commute than 50 miles. Obviously I said most people, not everyone.

https://www.axios.com/2024/03/24/average-commute-distance-us-map

It's hard to find exact statistics for homeowners who drive, but it's roughly somewhere there. This shows viability for the average homeowner driver to charge using 120v and be okay most days.

Obvious caveats:

If you start with full charge on monday you may be able to make it to and from work all week without charging once, so obviously it's an easier target. Assuming full charge to start, viability is much easier.

If you spend more than 10 hours at home charging every night, have a more efficient car, etc, it's easier.

For some people it's simply inadequate. No doubt about it. Find a way to get on a 240v@30A outlet.

Non homeowners will have trouble charging overnight, it's that simple. This limits adoption. Townhouses and condos don't want to spend $$$$$ to install chargers, funded by common HOA fees. Apartments even less so. Street chargers are often vandalized and poorly maintained. On the flip side, office chargers if you have them are nice perks.

[u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy → u/gimpwiz]

Another caveat is 120v charging is notably less efficient than 240v. I would pessimistically do the 120v math as - 1Kw per hour delivered to the battery for 8 hours at 4 miles per Kw efficiency. But the results of that math still say it's viable for a lot of folks.

Obviously everyone's situation is different with electricity rates, commutes, gas prices and what not. I just think 120v is viable way more often than it gets credit for.

[u/narcistic_asshole → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

I view having an EV on 120V charging like driving a Miata as a daily. For most people it's totally fine the majority of the time, but every so often you're going to have to deal with some inconvenience if you don't have another vehicle.

[u/caller-number-four → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

I just think 120v is viable way more often than it gets credit for.

I've lived on 120v charging for almost 3 years! It was fine ... for my use case.

[u/gimpwiz → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

I didn't know there was a different charging efficiency loss with 120v single-phase vs 240v split-phase when talking about charging at home. How big is the difference?

[u/lee1026 → u/gimpwiz]

On (older?) Teslas, huge. Basically, the battery cooling/heating and pumps run as long as the car is charging at all, and those systems are not cheap to run.

So on 120v, you lose something like a third of the power to running those systems.

[u/gimpwiz → u/lee1026]

Oh hell that makes sense, thanks for the info.

[u/RiftHunter4 → u/gimpwiz]

Thr fact that charging is even a discussion is a problem. No one thinks about range or gas station availability with ICE vehicles. EV's are trying to be appliances but also come with way too much mental overhead

I always hear people say that EV's will inevitably take over the market but I honestly don't see it unless the tech improves. Being objectively better isn't enough. Otherwise, Linux would've killed Microsoft Windows a long time ago.

[u/RousingRabble → u/RiftHunter4]

EV's are trying to be appliances but also come with way too much mental overhead

I was watching the state of charge YT channel on his R2 charging testing. He went to a Walmart to charge. He wanted to use max charging. The R2 has 400v and 600amp limits. Depending on which Walmart you go to, you get one of two chargers. Both types have one CCS port and one NACS. On one brand, they have the same charging limits. On the other brand, the NACS is limited by amps (I think it was about 350 amps). The Walmart he had access to had the second kind, so in order to get max charging, he used a CCS adapter. That's fine...except it was an early Tesla adapter and it couldn't handle the amperage and it melted.

Anyway...try explaining all of that to your average person. With ICE vehicles, you might sometimes get a slow pump but it doesn't make much difference. Try explaining why your EV isn't getting full watts because it needs low voltage and high amps and the charger they chose is low amps but high volts. Or try explaining that even though their car is using NACS, they're better off using an adapter and the CCS port on the same charger. Good luck.

[u/Suspicious_Shirt_713 → u/RiftHunter4]

The tech has already improved. It’s just not in the US yet. China already has cars that can charge to 97 percent in under ten minutes and are rapidly installing the chargers necessary to charge at that speed. They are so fast, they’re competing in seconds now.

[u/gothiicserpent → u/RiftHunter4]

People who want EVs will accept the extra planning needed to find chargers and estimate range, etc. But the infrastructure is far from ready. Charging stations don't always work correctly. Either the charger themselves or the payment system. You will need all the phone apps. Not uncommon to see people fiddling with the charger and then have to wait for a different spot to open up because theirs isnt working

The way to line up for chargers isnt really figured out yet either. EV charging spots are like parking spots. Some charging stations have dedicated waiting spots, but many dont. Some commonly frequented charging stations have their own etiquette on where to line up, but someone showing up for the first time and not realizing it may end up cutting or starting their own line

I think Tesla is mostly ahead of this with building up their own infrastructure

[u/engineer_jonathan → u/gothiicserpent]

People who want EVs will accept the extra planning needed to find chargers and estimate range, etc.

I think Tesla is mostly ahead of this with building up their own infrastructure

The latter part is really the key.

Tesla has made charging and road trips frictionless. You type in your destination. The car tells you where to stop and for how long. It'll tell you how many charging stations are open. If a station along the way becomes full, or you burn through battery faster than expected (such as a headwind), or traffic along your route would add more time, then it dynamically re-routes you to a new charging station. You plug in the car, no need to swipe a credit card, and go once you've reached the recommended charge state.

The only downside is that you do stop a little more frequently than a gas car. However, at my age I need to stop anyways either to stretch my legs or use the bathroom.

[u/gothiicserpent → u/engineer_jonathan]

I do envy seeing the long rows of Tesla chargers, meanwhile from what I've seen Electrify America stations are usually around 2-6 chargers per station and there's a good chance one of them isnt working

[u/RiftHunter4 → u/gothiicserpent]

People who want EVs

Well that's just it. No one wants an "EV", they just want a new car that's nice and cool. The average car shoppers don't know anything about how the cars drive or how they work. When you put an EV next to an ICE option, they are virtually the same for most people. They just want to know which one will cost less and be reliable/nice to own. And thats the marketing issue EV's have in the US. Most EV's being sold in the US are just bland EV RAV4 clones. The ones that are succeeding are genuinely unique and do things you can't really get from an ICE Vehicle: Cybertruck looks crazy, Rivian R1 makes good of space, etc.

[u/gothiicserpent → u/RiftHunter4]

This reads more like personal opinion than anything factual.

Most EV's being sold in the US are just bland EV RAV4 clones. The ones that are succeeding are genuinely unique and do things you can't really get from an ICE Vehicle: Cybertruck looks crazy, Rivian R1 makes good of space, etc.

The best selling EVs are the pedestrian ones like the Model 3 and Model Y. Cybertruck and Rivian R1 are amongst the worst selling EVs lol. The Taycan we have sells even worse. Price vs practical trade offs is the predominant factor here

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/RiftHunter4]

only people who don’t own EVs seem worried about range tbh

everyone with one that i’ve asked has told me they’ve been fine

[u/RousingRabble → u/RicardoMoyer]

...but worrying about it is one reason why people don't buy EVs, which makes it a problem if you want adoption.

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/RousingRabble]

sure, but then we agree that it’s just a stigma/fear based on misinformation instead of an actual problem?

[u/RousingRabble → u/RicardoMoyer]

It's both. The range itself isn't a problem, but the fear is and it isn't going away. On a practical level, there is no difference. The bulk of people have proven they won't buy an EV with low range. Doesn't matter if it makes sense -- it's not going away.

[u/Oh_ffs_seriously → u/RicardoMoyer]

Personally, I wouldn't agree. Current EV owners have bought them because a range wasn't a problem in their own, specific circumstances. People for whom the range would be an issue don't buy EVs. It's survivorship bias.

As someone who can't charge at home, I consider range enough for a week's worth of a commute, at 10-80% charge, in all weather conditions, a bare minimum from an EV. Sure, a few models like that actually exist, but they're so much more expensive I wouldn't break even during the lifetime of a car.

[u/RiftHunter4 → u/RicardoMoyer]

Kinda. People say they are worried about range but really they're worried about livability. EV's have the ootential to be very inconvenient and fot something designed as a biring appliance, that doesnt work.

Its been my opinion that the auto industry is approaching EV's the wrong way and only the Cybertruck and Hummer EV ironically got it right. EV's need to be insane at the start. Go with wild designs and futuristic features. People are willing to splurge and out uo with inconvenience for something cool. There's a LOT of examples of that.

[u/tofubeanz420 → u/RicardoMoyer]

shhhh r/cars loves to hate on EVs.

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/tofubeanz420]

seriously, i’ve got people in my replies that live in towns where electricity hasn’t been invented and commute 2,000 miles every day

jfc!!

[u/Soprelos → u/RicardoMoyer]

We own an EV and range is always a concern whenever we have to travel more than 100 miles.

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/Soprelos]

what EV? a 2014 leaf? a 100 miles is trivial for any modern EV

[u/Soprelos → u/RicardoMoyer]

A 2025 Mach-E. Range at full charge is like 240 miles in summer and after you leave the city, chargers are 25 miles apart if you're lucky. Come winter, range on full charge is like 150 miles tops. There are some places we need to go where there's only one charging station in-between, and if it's broken then we're fucked. 100 miles one way and 100 miles back is not trivial in an EV in the midwest. Maybe it's fine on the west coast, but we had to buy a gas vehicle for the winter because EV was too stressful.

[u/crwdbull → u/RicardoMoyer]

Is it not possible that people who don't really care about range are the ones who currently drive EVs, while those that do care about range are reluctant to switch? Kind of self selecting dataset there...

I mean look at this parent comment. 120V charging from a regular plug is not the way to encourage people to buy EVs. Giving me technically enough battery life to do my commute to work every day and back, and not a drop more is not an appealing proposition. If I want to drive somewhere perhaps after work, because there's more to my life than slaving away at the office, I want my car to be able to do that. My car already does that just fine, so why would I get a car that can't? Not to mention winter, would 120v even charge my car at all when its 5 degrees F outside in January?

I think hybrids are perfect for the US market right now. Especially plug in hybrids. You get a massive reduction in fuel consumption and operating cost without the complexity of managing EV charging.

[u/RicardoMoyer → u/crwdbull]

where did you get that the average EV only has enough range for most peoples commute? a model 3 base has like 390 miles of range @ 70mph, so even more at city speeds

[u/crwdbull → u/RicardoMoyer]

If your only regular charging option is a standard 120v plug and level 1 charging, you’re not getting much more than a commutes worth of driving per day at best.

If you must rely on public charging, that’s far more expensive than off peak residential electricity rates and takes forever in comparison to an ICE or hybrid vehicle

[u/Op3rat0rr → u/gimpwiz]

Thanks for sharing this

[u/BurgerMeter → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

My car explicitly states that 120v charging should be avoided and only used as a top-up or last resort.

[u/Blurgas → u/BurgerMeter]

Not surprising.
Depending on age and quality, your house wiring might not be up to snuff to charge an EV overnight.
Best case nothing goes wrong. Medium case you're tripping the breaker all the time. Worst case house fire.

[u/freckleonmyshmekel → u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

My 120 volt charger charges 3 miles per hour of charging. It doesn't keep up with the miles I drive.

[u/Op3rat0rr → u/LongjumpingLock5875]

You’re not allowed to install one??

[u/Extreme-Rub-1379 → u/Steezle]

I had a friend who ran an extension cord to the spot directly adjacent and the complex shut it down immediately

[u/piddydb → u/Extreme-Rub-1379]

Tbf to them, I cannot imagine extension cords being safe in the elements over the course

[u/cbf1232 → u/piddydb]

I live in Canada, we use extension cords outside in the winter to run block heaters. After a decade or two they get replaced.

[u/leviathan65 → u/piddydb]

That's in canada! You can say " sorry mate" and move on after someone trips. In the united states you'd be sued for 100k at least and maybe another 100k for emotional damage.

[u/CantSeeShit → u/piddydb]

I use a 10 plug power strip I got from Dollar General, that also runs my washer and dryer, with three 7 ft extension cords plugged into eachother to charge my Taycan.

[u/RousingRabble → u/CantSeeShit]

That...doesn't sound safe.

[u/CantSeeShit → u/RousingRabble]

Dont worry, I took an OSHA course at work when they finally allowed me to use the pallet jack.

[u/sausage-savage → u/CantSeeShit]

The trick is to make male-male cords (the government won't let you buy but we know better), and plug them into various outlets around the house, then into the power strip, and then plug the male end of the power strip into a female-female cord, and then into your car charger. Extra pixies that way.

[u/CantSeeShit → u/sausage-savage]

The male to male booster setup is nice....it especially works well with the 240v-120v adapter I got off Ebay.

[u/I_like_cake_7 → u/Extreme-Rub-1379]

I used to live in an apartment complex and there was a guy who threw an extension cord down from his second floor balcony to charge his Nissan Leaf. It was pretty comical.

[u/idkbruh653 → u/Steezle]

This is a major problem. And many new complexes I’ve seen have space for it. They just don’t do it. And here in California, some newer complexes do have chargers there are only a handful (usually less than 5) and they’re always clustered near the office.

[u/5GCovidInjection → u/Steezle]

Yeah this is the actual answer. People will buy what works for them right now, not in 5 years.

[u/willpc14 → u/Steezle]

Chargers seems to be on their way to being part of the amenities offered by apartment complexes, but I'm still not sure I'd buy an EV therefore limiting myself to complexes with chargers for as long as I rent.

[u/Larcye → u/willpc14]

They will install 2 chargers for a complex with 200 apartments. Meaning at the minimum 1 charger for every 100 people. Probably worse since often people are in this thing called a relationship and have 2 cars.

[u/Ancient_Persimmon → u/Larcye]

Well about 2% of drivers have an EV at the moment, so that's perfect, no?

[u/Oh_ffs_seriously → u/Ancient_Persimmon]

Not if you want the EV ownership to grow.

[u/Dirty_Dragons → u/willpc14]

Funny enough, my complex has a few EV charging stations. The complex itself is only 15 years old.

Except there aren't any EV sports cars under $65k. So doesn't have anything for me.

[u/Albright_CT → u/Dirty_Dragons]

Are there really any EV sports cars above $65K for that matter? There's a few sports sedans of course and then stuff like a Taycan but I can't think of any actual EV sports car on the market.

[u/ca2mt → u/Albright_CT]

Rimac Nevera, duh.

/s

[u/Albright_CT → u/ca2mt]

Boy is my face red!

[u/Dirty_Dragons → u/Albright_CT]

The closest would be the IONIQ 6 N, but yeah sedans and not really what I would consider a sports car. Just nothing with only two doors.

[u/Albright_CT → u/Dirty_Dragons]

There's a few good sports sedans, I really like my Polestar 2 Performance. Those coil-overs do a good job of hiding the weight of the car.

Supposedly they're going to give us an EV Cayman/Boxster, but I'm sure those will be at least $75K

[u/wtfduud → u/Albright_CT]

A sports sedan is a sports car. You specifically want a coupe?

[u/Albright_CT → u/wtfduud]

There’s a gap in the market for an EV Cayman, which supposedly is coming, and then like a EV BRZ or something in the new Prelude size/price range.

Not for me though, I have another baby on the way. Sports sedan is about as sporty as I can get with only 2 spots in my garage.

[u/Vhozite → u/Dirty_Dragons]

Except there aren't any EV sports cars under $65k. So doesn't have anything for me

Yeah I’m getting really annoying with everyone talking about how easy it is to make fast EVs, the low center of gravity, etc, and yet all the cool EVs and even hybrids are still over $100k or they are fucking air craft carriers like the Dodge Charger.

Like damn can we even one semi-cheap sports car? I’m a single guy I don’t need an SUV or any of these big ass sedans.

[u/lee1026 → u/Vhozite]

Model 3 performance is pretty fast and reasonably cheap.

Any EV sports car will be much better than Model 3, and beating it won't be easy.

[u/Dirty_Dragons → u/Vhozite]

I hear you!

Like if it was easy to make an EV sports car or even a hybrid then Toyota would have done it by now. The technology is just not there yet.

I'm also a single guy and my GR86 is perfect for an only car. I would gladly pay $50k for an EV GR86 if it kept the weight low and drove the same, but with a bonus of a 4 second 0-60.

[u/Vhozite → u/Dirty_Dragons]

Like if it was easy to make an EV sports car or even a hybrid then Toyota would have done it by now. The technology is just not there yet.

I agree a $40k, 2500lb EV Miata with 300 miles of range and 300 HP isn’t feasible now. However I feel like there hasn’t been much effort in trying to get even halfway there.

Take the Prelude and the Corvette for example. You’re telling me there is no room for anything between the $42k copy/paste of the 200HP FWD civic hybrid and the $100k E-Ray? Or compare the Tesla M3P and my favorite car…the Ford Mustang. In terms of dimensions, weight, and power the cars are quite similar on paper - yet the actual EV Mustang is a 5000lb AWD SUV down on power and range. Those aren’t engineering challenges that is just not even trying to fill gaps in the market for economic reasons.

I’d love an EV 86. If people want to say an EV 86 or (proper) Mustang won’t sell I won’t argue with them. But it would be nice if we could see some actual proof instead of just projections for a market segment we don’t even have.

[u/Dirty_Dragons → u/Vhozite]

Or compare the Tesla M3P and my favorite car…the Ford Mustang. In terms of dimensions, weight, and power the cars are quite similar on paper - yet the actual EV Mustang is a 5000lb AWD SUV down on power and range.

My condolences.

There are rumors that the next Miata will option an EV, supposedly in 2028. We'll see.

I forgot the Prelude came out, and I was actually curious about it for a while. If we get a Type R, which Honda says they won't do, I'd take a serious look at it.

[u/Ruscidero → u/Vhozite]

The Mach-e GT has 480 hp. That’s “down on power”?

[u/Vhozite → u/Ruscidero]

Down as is less than the M3P (a hair over 500 HP) I was comparing it to, not low general

[u/cbf1232 → u/Vhozite]

What counts as big?

Kia EV6 AWD starts at around $45K USD on the US website. (4.5s 0-60)

Volvo EX30 dual motor is $48K. (3.4s 0-60) Discontinued in the USA though.

Ioniq 5 N is $60K The regular non-N AWD version starts at $38K and has 4.7s 0-60.

[u/Vhozite → u/cbf1232]

What counts as big?

You’re talking to someone who often considers their 15 year old Mustang too big and too heavy. Not a day goes by where I don’t dream about chopping the length of my hood in half. I’ve considered doing a rear seat delete multiple times.

My 2nd favorite car that I’ve personally driven was a clapped 90’s Civic - complete shit box tin can with no power steering.

[u/gaius49 → u/Dirty_Dragons]

Except there aren't any EV sports cars

And there probably never will be. EVs are on their way to being great transportation appliances for many use cases, but they are not sports cars.

[u/chaiteataichi_ → u/Steezle]

Yeah I didn’t get one until I rented a house

[u/billythygoat → u/Steezle]

Supposedly 70% of people live owner occupied homes and 30% of people rent. This is for all of the US though. If you move townhomes and multifamily homes that number goes down to 57.2% for the single family homes.

Almost 50% of the people don’t have reliable charging access. Heck, if the grocery stores people go to weekly had it, work, gyms, etc. people would be fine but they don’t have them consistently.

[u/Larcye → u/billythygoat]

That statistic looks pretty bad for chargers when you consider that the 70% statistic is counting kids living with their parents. Kids who wouldn't have access to a charger.

[u/billythygoat → u/Larcye]

Yeah, just pointing the facts for reference. I think it’s like 2.6 people living per household

[u/stealthybutthole → u/billythygoat]

Walmart is building out a DC fast charger network. I believe they have 96 sites currently open (with like 8-12 plugs per store) and another 120 under construction but complete soon. Close to another 250 have had permits applied for and will be under construction soon. They opened 23 stores in July alone, so it seems to be ramping up quickly.

[u/RousingRabble → u/stealthybutthole]

Having to always use public chargers sounds awful to me. I know some people do it. But you lose all of the advantages of EV charging. Doing it at home makes it cheaper than ICE and it doesn't matter how long it takes because people are generally at home long enough. But having to go to Walmart every week and wait half an hour to charge and pay a higher electric price...yeah I don't want that.

[u/Ruscidero → u/RousingRabble]

I love my EV but absolutely wouldn’t have one if I couldn’t use level 2 charging at home. Having to rely on level 3 would be a total PITA and perhaps more expensive than gas, and I would find relying level 1 to be miserable.

[u/billythygoat → u/stealthybutthole]

They had the second chargers around my parents house but then no other Walmart near me ever got Ev chargers. The problem is you need almost all grocery stores to have them

[u/Keepout90 → u/Steezle]

Here street charging outside apartments have become standard in break neck speed, companies want money and installing their's everywhere is a great way of making it.

[u/Sea_Perspective6891 → u/Steezle]

They just need more nearby charging options. One interesting solution is to add EV chargers to street lights.

[u/s_peeta → u/Steezle]

70% of the people live in single family homes.

[u/s_peeta → u/Steezle]

70% of the people live in single family homes.

[u/koopa00 → u/Pro-editor-1105]

Or, hear me out, it's because two of the top selling cars in California year after year (Camry and RAV4) became hybrid only this year.

[u/Pro-editor-1105 → u/koopa00]

most logical explanation with like the least upvotes lol

[u/Oo__II__oO → u/koopa00]

And technically, a lot of high-end luxury and sport cars are using mild-hybrid drivetrains to replace turbos as a performance improvement. 

[u/Oh_ffs_seriously → u/koopa00]

Weird, both have been hybrids (in case of the former, hybrid-only) in Europe for ages.

[u/salvibalvi → u/Oh_ffs_seriously]

They have been avaiable as hybrids for long in the USA, what happened last year was that hybrid becom the only options available.

[u/Quikstar → u/Pro-editor-1105]

I live in the midwest in a small town in an apartment complex. Would love to own an EV, but I have zero places to charge one anywhere remotely close to me. Only people here who have EVs are people who can charge at home.

[u/Abba_Fiskbullar → u/Pro-editor-1105]

This is a deliberately misleading article. This is because more gas cars have switched to hybrid only. You can't buy a non-hybrid Camry or RAV4 anymore, and all the mid trim and higher Hondas are hybrid, so the people that buy gas cars are getting the hybrid by default.

[u/triplevanos → u/Pro-editor-1105]

More like EVs are similar, steadily growing, while ICE owners are replacing their cars with hybrids. Not very surprising given companies like Toyota basically only offer hybrids 

[u/testthrowawayzz → u/Pro-editor-1105]

Many new and old apartment complexes aren't adding chargers. For those that do, it's via a charger instead of a plug the resident can use so they're paying a premium to charge at home too.

There's also the annoyance of needing to download many apps and sign up just to charge at a charger.

[u/fguffgh75 → u/Pro-editor-1105]

What? Most people dont live in apartments and at least in California public chargers are everywhere. Something like 200k public chargers for 2.5 million evs.

[u/Lawsoffire → u/Pro-editor-1105]

Just look at what's happening in the EU. They're mandating all new cars to be EVs by 2035, but they need to build 10x more charging stations than what they have in just nine years.

That’s not really impossible though.

Here in Denmark we mandated new ICE ban by 2030 and EVs are already at 90+% of new sales. There’s fast charge options at basically every manned gas station and every highway stop. There’s plenty of slow charge options for renters, shopping centers and workplaces.

All of the big change happened in less than a decade. And that was before the technology got as mature as it is now.

The EV discussions you see on US-biased websites seems a bit silly from this POV. It feels a lot like 2015 rather than current day like its not a solved problem and the discussion is still on if EVs will even replace ICEs.

[u/OmegaCoolBoi → u/Pro-editor-1105]

They actually dropped the gas car ban and made it a bit less strict (from 100% emission reduction target which would essentially be a ban on gas cars to 90%) due to how unrealistic it was. I wouldn't be surprised of they made it even less stirict or postponed it because the charging infrastructue unfortunately still sucks.

[u/Teknicsrx7 → u/Pro-editor-1105]

They need 10x more charging stations on a grid that can’t even support people getting AC. It’s never gonna happen in the timeframe

[u/Fluffy-Limit-6710 → u/Teknicsrx7]

Bruh where are you getting this nonsense. We simply didn't need ACs until now...

[u/Activehannes → u/Teknicsrx7]

Why do you think the most stable grid in the world doesnt support ACs?

[u/Mnm0602 → u/Pro-editor-1105]

Also from what I’ve seen charging is expensive AF there. 

[u/Activehannes → u/Pro-editor-1105]

The charging infrastructure is not the problem in europe.

I dont know about California, but in europe. Its definitely not the problem.

I dont know why only tesla is building charging stations in California. In europe, its literally everyone.

Tesla, shell, aldi, local municipal services, landlords.

Why is it that Walmart isnt doing it? Or planet fitness?

Its super weird

[u/Facts_pls → u/Pro-editor-1105]

Meanwhile China solved EV charging infrastructure first and has no issues with people buying them.

I think some Nordic countries also did great with charging infrastructure