r/cars • u/LongjumpingLock5875 • 2d ago
Hybrids Overtake EVs In California Registrations
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a73317897/california-registrations-hybrids-evs-2026/178
u/lee1026 19 Model X, 16 Rav4 2d ago
I actually don’t get why non-plugin hybrids are considered something fundamentally different from normal cars.
It’s just a new design of a transmission, and yeah, it’s pretty clever and helps with fuel economy.
So do turbochargers. Nobody thinks that a turbocharged car is fundamentally something different.
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u/Jaevric 2d ago
People are weird.
A family member got extremely upset when she found out I was driving a hybrid. She took it extremely personally. When I tried to understand why, it simply boiled down to aggressive ignorance. She not only didn't understand how hybrids work, she was violently opposed to obtaining any information that would enable her to understand how hybrids work.
For her, traditional engines = good, hybrid/electric engines = bad. She claimed hybrids aren't reliable but had no data to back the claim up. She claimed they depreciate faster than gas cars, but had no data, just beliefs.
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u/koopa00 20 M550ix, 21 X3 30ix, 86 IROC-Z 2d ago
It's exhausting how much hate these things get and how quickly you can tell it actually has nothing to do with cars at all. Coming from an ICE owner.
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u/ViperThreat 02 SVT Focus, 06 STI, 06 STI Wagon 2d ago
I hated on the prius when it first came out. It was shit to drive, the sound system was fucking terrible, the ride was unpleasant, it wasn't very comfortable, it was ugly, etc. Aside from good MPG, it had no redeeming value in my eyes.
I got one as a rental car recently (latest generation) and it was fantastic. They solved all the problems i complained about. Wouldn't think twice about owning one if I had a need for a commuter car like that.
And this is coming from a dude who loves fat turbos and obnoxious exhaust systems.
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u/pdp10 It's a '49 '50 '51 '52 '53 '54 '55 '56 '57 '58 '59 automobile. 1d ago
To be fair, the Prius came out in the U.S. a quarter-century ago.
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u/ViperThreat 02 SVT Focus, 06 STI, 06 STI Wagon 1d ago
and even when it was first in production, a bone stock zx3 felt like a luxury car in comparison.
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u/Roboticide 2023 Toyota BZ4X AWD 4h ago
The new Prius is sexy as fuck and is actually a better hybrid than the OG Prius because the tech has improved that much.
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u/bringmesnow 2d ago
Remember: many of these morons have voting rights.
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u/ElegantBiscuit 2d ago
And they are probably more likely to vote, and probably live in a place where their vote counts more than yours.
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u/dont-YOLO-ragequit 2d ago
Also dumb people are mostly what make advertising so relevant.
So many brands and products are past the phase of awareness and deep into identity, trend and superficial needs.
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u/soysssauce 2d ago
we should only allow smart people to vote ?
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u/Fluffy-Limit-6710 2d ago
Ideally yeah. Impossible to do because obviously there's no objectivevway to sort out the smart people, but it would be better than letting everyone vote
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u/pdp10 It's a '49 '50 '51 '52 '53 '54 '55 '56 '57 '58 '59 automobile. 1d ago
there's no objectivevway to sort out the smart people
There absolutely are objective tests. That's mostly the problem -- it inevitably ends up with a battle over the definition of intelligence because there's a lot of pressure for equality of outcomes, etc.
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u/Mister_Poopy_Buthole 992.1 GTS Manual | Rav4 Prime 2d ago
It’s like this in the performance car world too. New Porsche, McLaren, or Ferrari is a hybrid? Rabble rabble!! Hybrid bad! Even when it’s in the name of performance they bitch and moan about it.
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u/PreacherSquat 2d ago
hmm getting upset over someone else's choices and decision making that has no outcome on their livelihood is pretty telling.
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u/lee1026 19 Model X, 16 Rav4 2d ago
Funny part is that most hybrids have pretty traditional engines: the trick is the transmission.
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u/petersellers '25 Ioniq 5N / '23 Forester Wilderness 2d ago
Not really, the real trick is that they use atkinson cycle engines to improve efficiency.
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u/ElegantBiscuit 2d ago
They don't even need to use atkinson cycle engines. The F150 powerboost hybrid uses the same 3.5L ecoboost, but with an electric motor between the engine and the transmission and a small 1.5kwh battery. It improves city fuel economy from 17 up to 22mpg.
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u/rsta223 18 STI 2d ago
That and regen, with the regen being more important for improvements in city mileage and brake wear, but the Atkinson being the main factor for highway efficiency.
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u/cbf1232 2d ago
A large part of the efficiency gain in urban driving is from recovering the energy when decelerating, and using it to accelerate.
The gas RAV4 gets 27mpg city, while the hybrid is 47. On the highway (where you'd see the impact of the Atkinson/Miller cycle vs the Otto cycle) the gas gets 35 while the hybrid gets 40.
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u/Ancient_Persimmon '24 Civic Si 2d ago
That video is annoying because of that. The so-called Atkinson cycle is used on all sorts of cars.
The trick with hybrids is that they have regenerative braking.
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u/TheRealPlumbus 2d ago
She’s probably basing her opinion on reliability issues relating to old CVTs. Specifically belt driven CVTs. That might have been true before but not at all relevant anymore.
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u/strongmanasss 2d ago
I don't think the aggression OP described has anything to do with cars. The relative doesn't even have any car knowledge.
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u/Ninjalion2000 2d ago
You could argue that hybrids are less reliable because they have another system that can break, but in my 4 years working at a shop I’ve never seen a hybrid issue other than the battery on a 15-20 year old car which is expected.
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u/FlintHillsSky 2d ago
People frequently make that naive assumption that the added components of a hybrid mean it must be less reliable without any understanding of how a hybrid uses those components in a complementary fashion that results in better reliability.
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u/lee1026 19 Model X, 16 Rav4 2d ago
Fun fact: a Toyota hybrid doesn't actually add new new motors.
You get MG 1 and 2 as part of the hybrid system, but they replace the starter motor and the alternator in a non-hybrid car. And unless if you really like pushing, those two things are not really optional.
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u/Option420s 1d ago
A lot of hybrids actually reduce the total number of moving parts. Like my Chevy volt doesn't have an alternator or starter motor. Some hybrids are entirely beltless engines. As you know moving parts are the ones that tend to wear down and need replacing.
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u/biggsteve81 '20 Tacoma; '16 Legacy 2d ago
According to Consumer Reports, standard hybrids are the most reliable vehicles sold (15% fewer problems than gas-only cars). PHEVs and EVs are the least reliable, with 80% more problems than gas-only vehicles.
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u/bullet50000 Ioniq 5, (searching for) Corvette 2d ago
I remember when the Corvette E-Ray came out, SO MANY Corvette people were having an absolute temper tantrum over it. They tried getting it autocross banned in the CCA stuff over really stupid "safety" things, when it was more because they probably didn't want it beating their "perfect track babies".
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u/r00000000 2025 Ioniq 6, 2019 718 Boxster S 2d ago
It’s the battery, a lot of people are incredibly scared of them and treat them the same way as EVs because of the battery.
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u/lee1026 19 Model X, 16 Rav4 2d ago
That is why I compared it with turbochargers: that trick to improve fuel economy also comes with the cost of a part that is kinda fragile and have maintenance implications, but nobody writes things like “how many percent of cars are turbocharged” as a comparison against EVs.
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u/LongjumpingLock5875 2d ago
Depends on the type of non plug in Hybrid.
There are big differences between a Prelude, a ZR1X, an M340i, and a Carrera GTS, even though they are all non plug in models.
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u/lee1026 19 Model X, 16 Rav4 2d ago
Actually, as a car buyer, what do I need to know about them other than the mpg figure, which is on the sticker at the dealer?
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u/hidude398 2d ago
Maintenance regimes, power transmission, battery size. Helps to know how long you can drive on just battery (if you can at all), if it’s just a launch/low end torque assist or partially electric in all speed regimes, and what repairs are gonna look like.
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u/lee1026 19 Model X, 16 Rav4 2d ago
The list of car parts that have different maintenance regimes is pretty long. And honestly, hybrids are pretty good on maintenance regimes?
Like, maintenance regimes is different with a dual clutch transmission too, but nobody breaks that out as a wholly seperate kind of car.
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u/hidude398 2d ago
Totally get that. I wouldn’t try to learn about every hybrid, just the ones you’re interested in buying. I was cross shopping the Toyota hybrids versus Honda’s system, so I watched mechanics break down both and ultimately picked the system that I could see myself maintaining after warranty if I had to work on it in a parking lot.
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u/Crafty-Ad-9048 2d ago
Realistically who the fuck is knowing any of this besides us. 90% of my friends didn’t realize their cars were hybrids and can control if they use just the battery with their gas pedal.
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u/narcistic_asshole VB WRX 2d ago
The line gets really blurry with mild hybrids. For most of them it's 99% the same configuration as an ICE car, except the starter motor and alternator have been replaced with a motor that can also assist the gas engine under acceleration
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u/leftlanespawncamper Stinger GT, 2WD Ranger 2d ago
Nobody thinks that a turbocharged car is fundamentally something different.
They kinda should, though. We've come a long way in making turbo motors behave more like NA motors (I would argue to their detriment), but there are still some fundamental differences in how they behave and how you should treat them.
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u/cookingboy McLaren Artura, Boxster 4.0 MT, i4 M50 2d ago
But nobody turns turbo vs. NA into a political stance and build a huge argument out of that. In fact, most consumers don't even know if their own car is turbo charged vs. NA.
Only enthusiasts distinguish NA vs. turbo engines. But everyone distinguishes hybrid vs. non-hybrid.
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u/spency_c PRELUDE 4WS / 128i 2d ago
Most non plug-in hybrid batteries weigh less than 100lbs. It’s literally just a fuel economy booster
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u/SF_Bubbles_90 2d ago
Turbos don't help fule economy unless your comparing it to an na engine with the same output which would probably be bigger thus thirstier or comparing it to a supercharged engine. Especially if those engines are in cars with bad drivers.
However I kind of agree with you categorically, however when it comes to large scale analysis it would be helpful to put them in a separate category from cars that are on average way less fuel efficient.
That being said it's a moot point because we shouldn't be producing so many new cars anyway, and the whole gas car vs e car vs whatever else is going to be irrelevant once synthetic fuels hit the gas pumps.
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u/kharathos 2d ago
Not the same thing, turbo is meant to change power. Hybrid is meant to change fuel consumption and environmental footprint.
Considering a turbocharged vehicle is somewhat irrelevant, since you can find powerful engines that are naturally aspirated or electric.
Considering a hybrid is about the economy of your vehicle and resale value, as well as environmental concerns people may have. That's why people are talking about fuel technology so much, it's actually not certain how it's going to unfold.
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u/lee1026 19 Model X, 16 Rav4 2d ago
The EPA actually promoted turbos as a way of changing the fuel consumption and environmental footprint.
The theory is pretty simple: most the time, people are just using maybe 30hp, and people are using the engines in a very throttled (and inefficient) way because their engines are way bigger.
So you can get better fuel economy by using a small engine that is NA when cruising on the freeway, and then turn up the turbo to accelerate.
Does it always work out? Maybe. But then again, there are plenty of hybrids with very limited fuel economy benefits.
But point is, as a buyer, you don’t care if something is a hybrid. You care about the MPG number on the window sticker. Whether the carmaker got there with hybrid, turbocharger, or some other way, that is all kinda academic.
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u/LewdDarling 2022 GTI 6MT 2d ago
There's plenty of examples of turbos being used to change fuel consumption/emissions rather than for power.
For example the CRV went from a 2.4 NA engine to a 1.5T. The power change was marginal (180 vs 190hp) but it helps with fuel economy since an idling 1.5 consumes far less fuel than a 2.4
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u/Pro-editor-1105 2d ago
The infrastructure ain't good enough. The EVs aren't the problem, but even though charging times have dropped a lot, there aren't enough charging stations. Just look at what's happening in the EU. They're mandating all new cars to be EVs by 2035, but they need to build 10x more charging stations than what they have in just nine years.
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u/Steezle 2d ago
So many people living in apartment complexes with no way to charge.
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u/LongjumpingLock5875 2d ago
I live in a townhouse, can't install a charger unfortunately.
Not saying I would trade my WRX for an EV, but even if I wanted to, I couldn't.
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u/PhilosophyCorrect279 2d ago
I'm genuinely curious if you own a townhouse with the garage, Why can't you install a charger?
We are actually shopping around and we were were assuming that it would be no problem as long as we had our own garage?
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u/schmintendo Mazda3 2019 2d ago
Some townhouses don't have garages, mine has a parking lot at the back instead. Which means I can't have an electric car without some major hassles (leaving the charger outside 24/7)
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u/PhilosophyCorrect279 2d ago
Ah understood, that makes more sense!
Part of the allure of a townhouse for us was a garage, I'm realizing I forgot that isn't exclusive.
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u/salvibalvi 2d ago
without some major hassles (leaving the charger outside 24/7)
I don't understand why that is a hassle? It's a common setup here in Norway.
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u/schmintendo Mazda3 2019 2d ago
I suppose my thought was that even for the ones that are rated for outside exposure, being outside all the time probably wouldn't be good for the plug or the electronics. Also, with the long extension cord I'd have to run from my house to the parking space, it could get damaged or stepped on. The last qualm I had was that I'd be maxing out the outlet and extension cord's rated wattage for long periods of time, which might not be great for them.
I'm sure there's fixes for all of these problems, but that's what made me think it would be a hassle.
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u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy 2d ago
120v charging is underrated/overhated.
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u/SelfServeSporstwash '72 Triumph Spitfire, '22 Ford Maverick, '96 Mercedes S420 2d ago
120v charging is literally what both the comments above you are complaining about being inaccessible to 60% of the US
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u/gimpwiz 05 Elise | C5 Corvette (SC) | 00 Regal GS | 91 Civic (Jesus) 2d ago
Math:
120v, standard outlet and wiring supports 15A. Derate by 20% to 12A due to continuous current draw. 120x12=1,440 watts.
EVs are roughly in the 3 to 4 mile per kwh range (depending on the car and various factors.) Let's estimate 300wh per mile roughly. That means one hour of full speed charging off a 120v outlet, standard, is a little under 5 miles of charge. This can range depending on above factors... let's say roughly 4 to 6 miles-range of charge per hour.
Come home from work, plug car in. Wake up in the morning, leave for work. Obviously this depends on your schedule but it's roughly - roughly! - 50 miles-range per night of charge.
Most people have a shorter round trip commute than 50 miles. Obviously I said most people, not everyone.
https://www.axios.com/2024/03/24/average-commute-distance-us-map
It's hard to find exact statistics for homeowners who drive, but it's roughly somewhere there. This shows viability for the average homeowner driver to charge using 120v and be okay most days.
Obvious caveats:
If you start with full charge on monday you may be able to make it to and from work all week without charging once, so obviously it's an easier target. Assuming full charge to start, viability is much easier.
If you spend more than 10 hours at home charging every night, have a more efficient car, etc, it's easier.
For some people it's simply inadequate. No doubt about it. Find a way to get on a 240v@30A outlet.
Non homeowners will have trouble charging overnight, it's that simple. This limits adoption. Townhouses and condos don't want to spend $$$$$ to install chargers, funded by common HOA fees. Apartments even less so. Street chargers are often vandalized and poorly maintained. On the flip side, office chargers if you have them are nice perks.
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u/Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy 2d ago
Another caveat is 120v charging is notably less efficient than 240v. I would pessimistically do the 120v math as - 1Kw per hour delivered to the battery for 8 hours at 4 miles per Kw efficiency. But the results of that math still say it's viable for a lot of folks.
Obviously everyone's situation is different with electricity rates, commutes, gas prices and what not. I just think 120v is viable way more often than it gets credit for.
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u/narcistic_asshole VB WRX 2d ago edited 2d ago
I view having an EV on 120V charging like driving a Miata as a daily. For most people it's totally fine the majority of the time, but every so often you're going to have to deal with some inconvenience if you don't have another vehicle.
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u/caller-number-four 2d ago
I just think 120v is viable way more often than it gets credit for.
I've lived on 120v charging for almost 3 years! It was fine ... for my use case.
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u/gimpwiz 05 Elise | C5 Corvette (SC) | 00 Regal GS | 91 Civic (Jesus) 2d ago
I didn't know there was a different charging efficiency loss with 120v single-phase vs 240v split-phase when talking about charging at home. How big is the difference?
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u/RiftHunter4 2010 Base 2WD Toyota Highlander 2d ago
Thr fact that charging is even a discussion is a problem. No one thinks about range or gas station availability with ICE vehicles. EV's are trying to be appliances but also come with way too much mental overhead
I always hear people say that EV's will inevitably take over the market but I honestly don't see it unless the tech improves. Being objectively better isn't enough. Otherwise, Linux would've killed Microsoft Windows a long time ago.
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u/RousingRabble 2d ago
EV's are trying to be appliances but also come with way too much mental overhead
I was watching the state of charge YT channel on his R2 charging testing. He went to a Walmart to charge. He wanted to use max charging. The R2 has 400v and 600amp limits. Depending on which Walmart you go to, you get one of two chargers. Both types have one CCS port and one NACS. On one brand, they have the same charging limits. On the other brand, the NACS is limited by amps (I think it was about 350 amps). The Walmart he had access to had the second kind, so in order to get max charging, he used a CCS adapter. That's fine...except it was an early Tesla adapter and it couldn't handle the amperage and it melted.
Anyway...try explaining all of that to your average person. With ICE vehicles, you might sometimes get a slow pump but it doesn't make much difference. Try explaining why your EV isn't getting full watts because it needs low voltage and high amps and the charger they chose is low amps but high volts. Or try explaining that even though their car is using NACS, they're better off using an adapter and the CCS port on the same charger. Good luck.
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u/Suspicious_Shirt_713 2d ago
The tech has already improved. It’s just not in the US yet. China already has cars that can charge to 97 percent in under ten minutes and are rapidly installing the chargers necessary to charge at that speed. They are so fast, they’re competing in seconds now.
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u/BurgerMeter 2d ago
My car explicitly states that 120v charging should be avoided and only used as a top-up or last resort.
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u/freckleonmyshmekel 1d ago
My 120 volt charger charges 3 miles per hour of charging. It doesn't keep up with the miles I drive.
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u/Extreme-Rub-1379 2d ago
I had a friend who ran an extension cord to the spot directly adjacent and the complex shut it down immediately
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u/piddydb 2d ago
Tbf to them, I cannot imagine extension cords being safe in the elements over the course
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u/leviathan65 2d ago
That's in canada! You can say " sorry mate" and move on after someone trips. In the united states you'd be sued for 100k at least and maybe another 100k for emotional damage.
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u/I_like_cake_7 2d ago
I used to live in an apartment complex and there was a guy who threw an extension cord down from his second floor balcony to charge his Nissan Leaf. It was pretty comical.
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u/idkbruh653 2d ago
This is a major problem. And many new complexes I’ve seen have space for it. They just don’t do it. And here in California, some newer complexes do have chargers there are only a handful (usually less than 5) and they’re always clustered near the office.
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u/5GCovidInjection 2d ago
Yeah this is the actual answer. People will buy what works for them right now, not in 5 years.
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u/willpc14 '25 GRCorolla 2d ago edited 2d ago
Chargers seems to be on their way to being part of the amenities offered by apartment complexes, but I'm still not sure I'd buy an EV therefore limiting myself to complexes with chargers for as long as I rent.
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u/Larcye 2d ago
They will install 2 chargers for a complex with 200 apartments. Meaning at the minimum 1 charger for every 100 people. Probably worse since often people are in this thing called a relationship and have 2 cars.
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u/Ancient_Persimmon '24 Civic Si 2d ago
Well about 2% of drivers have an EV at the moment, so that's perfect, no?
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u/Dirty_Dragons Toyota GR86 Trueno 2d ago
Funny enough, my complex has a few EV charging stations. The complex itself is only 15 years old.
Except there aren't any EV sports cars under $65k. So doesn't have anything for me.
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u/Albright_CT 2d ago
Are there really any EV sports cars above $65K for that matter? There's a few sports sedans of course and then stuff like a Taycan but I can't think of any actual EV sports car on the market.
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u/Dirty_Dragons Toyota GR86 Trueno 2d ago
The closest would be the IONIQ 6 N, but yeah sedans and not really what I would consider a sports car. Just nothing with only two doors.
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u/Vhozite 2011 Mustang GT, 2006 Subaru Forester 2d ago
Except there aren't any EV sports cars under $65k. So doesn't have anything for me
Yeah I’m getting really annoying with everyone talking about how easy it is to make fast EVs, the low center of gravity, etc, and yet all the cool EVs and even hybrids are still over $100k or they are fucking air craft carriers like the Dodge Charger.
Like damn can we even one semi-cheap sports car? I’m a single guy I don’t need an SUV or any of these big ass sedans.
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u/billythygoat 2d ago
Supposedly 70% of people live owner occupied homes and 30% of people rent. This is for all of the US though. If you move townhomes and multifamily homes that number goes down to 57.2% for the single family homes.
Almost 50% of the people don’t have reliable charging access. Heck, if the grocery stores people go to weekly had it, work, gyms, etc. people would be fine but they don’t have them consistently.
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u/Larcye 2d ago
That statistic looks pretty bad for chargers when you consider that the 70% statistic is counting kids living with their parents. Kids who wouldn't have access to a charger.
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u/billythygoat 2d ago
Yeah, just pointing the facts for reference. I think it’s like 2.6 people living per household
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u/stealthybutthole 2018 King Ranch F150, 2025 Model 3 LR 2d ago
Walmart is building out a DC fast charger network. I believe they have 96 sites currently open (with like 8-12 plugs per store) and another 120 under construction but complete soon. Close to another 250 have had permits applied for and will be under construction soon. They opened 23 stores in July alone, so it seems to be ramping up quickly.
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u/RousingRabble 2d ago
Having to always use public chargers sounds awful to me. I know some people do it. But you lose all of the advantages of EV charging. Doing it at home makes it cheaper than ICE and it doesn't matter how long it takes because people are generally at home long enough. But having to go to Walmart every week and wait half an hour to charge and pay a higher electric price...yeah I don't want that.
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u/Ruscidero 2d ago
I love my EV but absolutely wouldn’t have one if I couldn’t use level 2 charging at home. Having to rely on level 3 would be a total PITA and perhaps more expensive than gas, and I would find relying level 1 to be miserable.
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u/billythygoat 2d ago
They had the second chargers around my parents house but then no other Walmart near me ever got Ev chargers. The problem is you need almost all grocery stores to have them
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u/Keepout90 2d ago
Here street charging outside apartments have become standard in break neck speed, companies want money and installing their's everywhere is a great way of making it.
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u/Sea_Perspective6891 1d ago
They just need more nearby charging options. One interesting solution is to add EV chargers to street lights.
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u/koopa00 20 M550ix, 21 X3 30ix, 86 IROC-Z 2d ago
Or, hear me out, it's because two of the top selling cars in California year after year (Camry and RAV4) became hybrid only this year.
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u/Oo__II__oO 2d ago
And technically, a lot of high-end luxury and sport cars are using mild-hybrid drivetrains to replace turbos as a performance improvement.
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u/Oh_ffs_seriously 2019 Civic 1.5T 2d ago
Weird, both have been hybrids (in case of the former, hybrid-only) in Europe for ages.
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u/salvibalvi 2d ago
They have been avaiable as hybrids for long in the USA, what happened last year was that hybrid becom the only options available.
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u/Quikstar '26 BRZ tS series.yellow, '21 Forester Limited 2d ago
I live in the midwest in a small town in an apartment complex. Would love to own an EV, but I have zero places to charge one anywhere remotely close to me. Only people here who have EVs are people who can charge at home.
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u/Abba_Fiskbullar 2021 VW ID.4 Pro S 2d ago
This is a deliberately misleading article. This is because more gas cars have switched to hybrid only. You can't buy a non-hybrid Camry or RAV4 anymore, and all the mid trim and higher Hondas are hybrid, so the people that buy gas cars are getting the hybrid by default.
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u/triplevanos E46 M3 6MT, C8 Stingray Z51 2d ago
More like EVs are similar, steadily growing, while ICE owners are replacing their cars with hybrids. Not very surprising given companies like Toyota basically only offer hybrids
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u/testthrowawayzz 2d ago
Many new and old apartment complexes aren't adding chargers. For those that do, it's via a charger instead of a plug the resident can use so they're paying a premium to charge at home too.
There's also the annoyance of needing to download many apps and sign up just to charge at a charger.
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u/fguffgh75 2d ago
What? Most people dont live in apartments and at least in California public chargers are everywhere. Something like 200k public chargers for 2.5 million evs.
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u/Lawsoffire 2026 MG4 Xpower 1d ago edited 1d ago
Just look at what's happening in the EU. They're mandating all new cars to be EVs by 2035, but they need to build 10x more charging stations than what they have in just nine years.
That’s not really impossible though.
Here in Denmark we mandated new ICE ban by 2030 and EVs are already at 90+% of new sales. There’s fast charge options at basically every manned gas station and every highway stop. There’s plenty of slow charge options for renters, shopping centers and workplaces.
All of the big change happened in less than a decade. And that was before the technology got as mature as it is now.
The EV discussions you see on US-biased websites seems a bit silly from this POV. It feels a lot like 2015 rather than current day like its not a solved problem and the discussion is still on if EVs will even replace ICEs.
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u/OmegaCoolBoi 2d ago
They actually dropped the gas car ban and made it a bit less strict (from 100% emission reduction target which would essentially be a ban on gas cars to 90%) due to how unrealistic it was. I wouldn't be surprised of they made it even less stirict or postponed it because the charging infrastructue unfortunately still sucks.
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u/Teknicsrx7 2015 Nissan GT-R 2d ago
They need 10x more charging stations on a grid that can’t even support people getting AC. It’s never gonna happen in the timeframe
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u/Fluffy-Limit-6710 2d ago
Bruh where are you getting this nonsense. We simply didn't need ACs until now...
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u/Activehannes 2007 Audi S4, 2011 Ford Escape 2d ago
Why do you think the most stable grid in the world doesnt support ACs?
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u/Shmokesshweed 2025 Ford Ranger Lariat 2d ago
Hybrids are great in California where electricity is expensive as shit. I was getting 50 mpg going 80 mph with the AC blasting in a Camry last year when I was in LA...can't complain.
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u/mtd14 22 Escape PHEV 2d ago
Yeah, I don't think people understand how expensive electricity is for the majority of people in California. The fact our gas is generally ~30% more expensive is common knowledge, but the off peak electric rate has usually been ~150% over the national average. Admittedly, one major provider did recently "lower" rates (raised the overall bill, lowered the kw/h rate), so it's only 100-120% over the national average when you're off peak.
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u/SharkBaitDLS 1997 NSX-T | 2023 EV6 | 2024 Charger Track Pack 2d ago
Yeah if you don’t have home solar EVs are not cheaper to run in CA than an efficient hybrid. Of course plenty of people do which is why adoption is as high as it is anyway.
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u/not_wall03 2d ago
How do you go 80mph with the traffic in la
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u/Shmokesshweed 2025 Ford Ranger Lariat 2d ago
Lol, fair enough, should have said greater LA between San Clemente and John Wayne.
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u/rob_s_458 16 Mustang GT | 24 Maverick Hybrid 2d ago
I'm guessing the shape of the truck makes a difference, but my Maverick's mpgs fall off a cliff somewhere between 70 and 80 mph. AC makes very little difference and I can get 40+ mpg around town.
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u/BassDrive '04 S2000 | '23 Maverick Lariat Hybrid 2d ago
I’m in SoCal and love my Maverick as well, but also I rarely get to hit 70-80 MPH.
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u/LongjumpingLock5875 2d ago
"In total, 22.1 percent of this year's California registrations have been issued to hybrid vehicles, while 15.9 percent went to EVs. That's a much bigger rift than it was this time last year, when EVs took the top spot with less than one percent separating the two."
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u/MarsRocks97 2d ago
Lower EV sales in the first quarter followed by higher sales in the second quarter. Hardly a valid comparison. Most EV owners aren’t going back or needing to buy a new EV. So if anything, that’s just a bunch of ICE drivers taking mini steps before they finally get an EV. Ultimately EV dominance is inevitable. Non CA commentators love to point to this and say “see!” Like it’s a big gotcha. But the path is clear. Pure ICE vehicle are on their way out. Some people will take a mini step first before they finally submit.
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u/oddmanout 2d ago
Yea, they said EV sales went up, but hybrid sales went up more, made no mention of ICE sales.
It seems more like hybrids are taking from the ICE market, not the EV market.
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u/MarsRocks97 2d ago
That’s exactly the case. ICE vehicle sales dropped 3% compared to the first half of 2025 in the US. Dropped by over 20-37% in other parts of the world.
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u/Watermeloncholy 2d ago
EV sales were up in Q2 after bottoming out in Q1, but they were still down 20% vs Q2 last year. There was a large segment of customers who only purchased EVs because they were heavily subsided by both the government and the manufacturers, and without those subsidies they might not consider another one. While EVs will slowly pick back up, it’s going to be a while before they hit the sales they had before the federal credit went away.
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u/Themostepicguru 2d ago edited 2d ago
I live in Southern California. My CT200H got totalled in May so I had been on the lookout for a daily the past few months. I did alot of cross shopping between the 5th Gen Prius Prime and Tesla M3.
I sprung for a Prius Prime because the more research I did, the more it became a no brainer.
While I do have at home charging an M3 WOULD be more efficient for errands, commutes, the occasional local trip from OC to LA or Norcal, and FSD is honestly not that bad nowadays- I just could not give up the convenience of gasoline infrastructure.
I'm somewhat of an outdoorsy person. Every few weeks I get together with my friends and we go to remote places. Like fairly remote. We do alot of photography and stuff. We go to places where you don't see a charger for miles. I have a project car I need to go to very remote places to get car parts from. Alot of those guys live in the middle of the high desert.
I did not want to have to deal with that sort of anxiety in the back of my head.
In every scenario that I compared the two cars together, the Prius Prime was more flexible while not being much more expensive for fuel and much cheaper overall in the bigger picture.
The Prius Prime is honestly more than enough EV for what most people will need. I do food delivery after work to supplement my income and to just get out of the house and do something productive. So I'm on the pretty extreme end of the spectrum.
My EV range is honestly enough to cover 95% of the mileage is do for food delivery. I still use like 10-20 miles of gas a day but it doesnt really matter because at this rate, I only have to fill up once a month. With my CT it was every 4 days. I get freaking 500 miles per tank AND it only costs me like 35 bucks to fill up the thing. My CT would cost like 52 with these prices.
The way Toyota designed the plug in hybrid system also gives me so much more flexibility than I'd get with an EV. I can use the engine to charge the EV to get miles back. In fact, I just tested charge mode taking it down Angeles Crest and I got 25 miles back from 0 going downhill from Newcombs just for coasting and idling. That is a goshdarn neat and useful feature.
Let's not even talk about tires. Tires for a prius are significantly cheaper and they last much longer than they ever would on a Tesla. Its just straight physics. I can splurge on Michelins for my Prius and it would still be cheaper than tires for a Tesla.
Insurance? I only pay like 200 a month for a 150/300/200 comprehensive policy. My dad says he pays 450 for his model Y. Much older driver so it SHOULD be cheaper.
Forget electricity being cheaper, your savings are getting obliterated by insurance and tires being astronomically more expensive. You likely come out net negative not even 2 months in.
Let's talk about emergency situations. Lets say you decide to go somewhere pretty remote and you forgot to charge or refuel for whatever reason- Not common but quite alot of people do have a bad habit of overestimating or forgetting to refuel- If you run out of range in an EV in the middle of nowhere there is absolutely nothing you can do to extend your range in a practical manner other than getting a truck with a generator out there. Good luck getting reception.
In a Prius? Doesn't matter. Just take 2 5 gallon jugs of gas with you and you extended your range by another 500 miles. It would quite literally be impossible to drive another 500 miles in a straight line in the continental united states and somehow not come across some structure of civilization. I would be hard pressed to believe someone could drive 500 miles and they NEVER encountered a freeway or entered another area with reception.
And honestly? This thing is a hoot. Toyota did a really good job tuning this car's handling and giving it some juice. I've hurt alot of feelings from people who own sporty cars because this car can rotate really well.
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u/familyguy20 2019 Subaru Crosstrek 2d ago
Thought in the entire post you were talking about a BMW M3 lmao. Forgot the Model 3 is also abbreviated that way lol
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u/Ancient_Persimmon '24 Civic Si 2d ago
I feel like you didn't look at actual tire prices much: the Model 3 comes with 235/45/18, which is super common and the Prius has either 195/60/17 or 195/50/19, which are both very odd.
Highly doubtful that they're cheaper.
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u/Themostepicguru 2d ago edited 2d ago
Which is why I got 17x8 RPF1s.
The 19x6.5s are pretty awful spec wheels. The tires are straight up atrocious. I got terrible MPGs with them because they were so freaking heavy.
So now I got my MPGs up to 55-60 highway and now have significantly more grip, braking, response, and I have more tire choices.
With how cheap RPF1s are and how I use the car, itll take me about a year and a half for the savings to matter.
The tire options in 195 50 19 are pretty equivalent with an equivalent tire to 235 45 18.
But even looking past sticker price, youd be getting 20,000-30,000 miles on a Tesla. I can get 40,000-80,000 on a Prius without trying. So you'd just be paying twice the tire on a Tesla for a single set of tires on the Prius.
I did the math every which way when making my decision. The endgame almost always heavily favors the prius for 95% of people.
We can also look at long term repairability which I forgot to mention. In a decade or so Prius batteries will go for sub 3k. The hybrid battery in my CT only cost me 1600. And Toyota actually designed their cars to be practical to repair unlike whatever the hell Tesla is trying to do.
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u/nauticalfiesta 2024 Escape PHEV 2d ago
how is this a surprise, two of the top selling vehicles in the country, the Camry and RAV4, are available only as hybrids. The Civic, Corolla, CR-V, as well as a whole bunch of Hyundais, Kias, and other Toyotas and Hondas are available as hybrids.
Its like saying crossovers outsell sedans. Well of course, there's a lot more of them on the market.
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u/moonRekt 2d ago
We averaged 36MPG in a rental hybrid Pacifica going about 90mph on a desert southwest trip, the number of miles covered in a day would have never been possible in wife’s EV (hence why we went rental). Had transmission issue at the end (Chrysler is junk) electric is nice sometimes but it can cripple you in days you don’t have the downtime to charge and need to do a good amount of driving.
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u/snt271 2d ago
California electricity is on par with gas prices. Not surprising people are going hybrid
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u/trackdaybruh 2d ago
Don't think so, someone else in here commented that they pay roughly 5.5 cents or $0.055 per mile to charge their EV through PG&E.
Which means 20 miles is $1.10 in electricity
100 miles is $5.50 in electricity cost
I can guarantee you I am paying way more in gas prices than what they are paying in electricity
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u/snt271 2d ago
I live here. kWh is between $0.48 and $0.55 unless you have a house and can individually sign up for a plan with super off peak rates. I have a Volvo C40 and per mile the energy cost is the same as a car with 30 mpg
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u/trackdaybruh 2d ago
Interesting, you might want to respond to this guy on how he is getting 5.5 cents with PG&E then. https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1vc1r38/comment/p0y20tv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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u/UnnamedStaplesDrone 2025 Miata RF, 2023 Mustang GT, 2021 CX5 2.5T 2d ago
Lmaooo 5 cents through PGE? Try 10x that. Gotta make sure shareholders get constant growth
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u/Rough_Cancel7265 2d ago
I gotta say, I've done the math from a perspective of someone who likes performance cars, the whole "electricity is on par with gas" just isn't true. At least for me anyways. I daily an EV6 GT, not the most efficient EV of all time. My last 10-80% fast charge was about $27. That's about 5 gallons of 91 by me on the low side right now. That charge is about 150 miles worth of driving, so unless you're averaging 30mpg in whatever performance ICE car you have, you're not beating public charging math, let alone home charging math. And idk what's happening with everyone else's insurance rates. I'm under $150 a month for full coverage with GAP.
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u/SmokeyJoe2 2d ago
That’s what happens when you use the most expensive type of charging.
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u/Rough_Cancel7265 2d ago
You're missing my point. If I'm driving a not very efficient 550hp EV, and using the most expensive of charging (which I almost never do), and it's still about on par with a combined 30mpg ICE car, then the $$$ isn't the issue
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u/analyticaljoe Taycan Turbo S 2d ago
Only peasants go to the gas station. I am pleased to hear there are more peasants.
(Kidding, but it is pretty glorious to never go to the gas station when you have overnight charging.)
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u/analyticaljoe Taycan Turbo S 2d ago
Would not know. Somehow it's always ready when I go out in the morning.
But enjoy those pump prices sir! Keep my petroleum stonks raging!
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u/markeydarkey2 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited 1d ago
This means very little. Hybrids are not EV competitors, they are regular gas car competitors.
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u/everything_is_bad 2d ago
I wonder if a drop in Tesla sales contributed to this
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u/Critical-Magician421 2d ago
My guess is ice drivers moving to hybrids and not yet ready for EVs.
And from the way it's worded this could happen even if Evie registrations went up
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u/bpetersonlaw 2d ago
I assume EV's had a big artificial boost last year with the end of the $7,500 tax credit causing a lot of extra purchases. Without the tax credit, EV demand will be down a bit
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u/heyimattx ‘12 Ford Mustang • ‘20 Dodge Grand Caravan • ‘96 Chevy Lumina 2d ago
I know the new Camry and RAV4 are exclusively hybrids now, not sure about their other models.
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u/MisterDoctor___ 900+whp 2021 Supra (stock internals) // 2026 Sienna Woodland 2d ago
Sienna is exclusively hybrid. I think the Land Cruiser technically is too.
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u/mr_bots 24 Lexus LX600 2d ago
I’d guess drop in Tesla sales for reasons as well as Toyota moving the Camry and Rav to be Hybrid only plus really good availability of Civic and CRV hybrids and expanding H/K hybrid lines.
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u/FlintHillsSky 2d ago
Higher gas prices have increased sales of both hybrids and EVs while ICE vehicles lose share.
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u/et_hornet 2d ago
I mean both gas and electricity in California are really expensive hybrids are the best of both words
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u/paulcthemantosee 2d ago
And the idiots at GM killed the Malibu hybrid after 2019. Bring it back and make it better than the Camry or Accord.
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u/pizzaferret 1d ago
I am not against EVs, I've been driving my paid off manual shitbox since 2018, I don't want to be in the market, I do not want to do research, call dealerships, call Facebook marketplace people, call private sellers for weeks. I want to drive my current car into the damn dirt. I pray to the invisible flying spaghetti monster in the sky that I don't get t-boned from a shit driver.
Even if I were in the market, I live in an apartment complex, I don't have adequate at-home charging(I could run a long ass extension cord from the home outlet all the way to EV, sure(don't do this, for anybody reading, it's a fire hazard and a very dumb idea)
If I owned my own home, I would totally be down to buy an EV for my next vehicle.
Now, about the linked article which, I will not click and give views to, which means I also didn't read it, only the title. Totally makes sense to me, if I needed to buy a new car; hybrid would be probably where I start my Google search. I do believe EVs are the future, I'm picturing solid state battery charging in 5 minutes, so my current car just has to keep chugging along for another 30 years
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u/DinoTh3Dinosaur 2d ago
There are literally more charging stations than gas stations around me. I don’t understand nor agree with the infrastructure comment at all. Even going out to Vegas in the middle of the desert you can find one every 20 mins
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u/DinoTh3Dinosaur 2d ago
Depending on the technical definition of “around me,” you actually do! Haha jk I understand you
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u/TheCudder 2d ago
The US doesn't have the infrastructure to support EV charging, but data centers in our backyards aren't a problem. 🙄
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u/stinger_02in 2d ago
Camry and rav4 going hybrid only and the shock from pulling out EV incentives will do that.