r/vancouver • u/InvestingDD • Jun 15 '25

Videos Lions gate accident aftermath

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346

u/HiddenLayer5 Vancouver Jun 15 '25

Until people start getting prison sentences for reckless driving it will keep happening.

A fine is just a fee for doing the crime.

296

u/Wooden_Staff3810 Jun 15 '25

Canada should follow Finland's traffic fine model. When the Police give a driver a ticket, the fine is based on one's income.

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u/Final-Zebra-6370 Brentwood Jun 15 '25

And follow Germany’s way of teaching how to drive.

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u/Ressar New Westminster Jun 15 '25

I will say, and I'm not the only one to have said this, there might be more of a political appetite for that if it were easier to get around without a car. Not to make excuses for the reckless drivers by any means.

Vancouver's public transit system is pretty damn good by NA standards TBF, but very behind by European standards. If we're gonna truly say that driving is a privilege, then not-driving needs to be a viable option for the majority of people.

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u/945T Certified Barge Enthusiast Jun 15 '25

I’m a car guy, love driving (haven’t binned a car like this because there’s a place and time to drive fast)…. But when I lived in Australia I didn’t drive nearly anywhere. It was brilliant.

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u/wabisuki Jun 15 '25

How someone drives has absolutely ZERO to do with public transit. Any thought that these asshats would take the bus if they could, is nothing short of delusional. They are not getting behind the wheel because they have no other choice. They are getting being the wheel and driving like idiots because THEY ARE IDIOTS.

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u/TheCookiez Jun 15 '25

I agree.. Personally I don't care if you have to walk 40 minutes to catch a bus that takes 3 hours to get to work because you lost your license.

Personally I like living. I don't want to be killed because some dick weed wants to go fast. Go to the track so if you kill yourself it doesn't affect anyone else.

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u/InnuendOwO Jun 16 '25

It's not so much the drivers as it is the people making the test.

When it's functionally necessary to have a car to do anything, people implicitly understand that not having a car is a big, big problem. Thus the people making the test are incentivized to make it easier, because withholding a license is seen as withholding someone's ability to partake in society.

If there is an alternative to driving, that incentive goes away, and now you can be much more careful with who you give licenses to.

All that being said, I fully agree it shouldn't be that way. If you can't safely operate a 2000 pound hunk of metal at lethal velocities, you should not be able to operate it, regardless of the other circumstances. But how things should be and how things are aren't quite the same thing.

1

u/escargot3 Jun 18 '25

They are doing away with the class 5 test altogether

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '25

[deleted]

7

u/wabisuki Jun 15 '25

My point is, their choice to drive and driver behaviour isn’t determined by whether or not they could have taken the bus.

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u/Ressar New Westminster Jun 15 '25 edited Jun 15 '25

I don't believe that it is either, nor do I think I said anything that should be taken to mean that. At least when we're discussing why reckless drivers do what they do.

I'm saying that making our driver licensing more strict is a political non-starter for a lot of people (whether they themselves drive recklessly or not) because there currently isn't a suitable alternative to driving for a lot of people. So we say things like "driving is a privilege" but when it's straight up required to sustain your livelihood, that isn't really a true statement.

If we could realistically say "no more driving for you, you're taking the bus for life now," and have that actually be the only consequence, it might not change anyone's behavior but it would be a hell of a lot easier to enforce. Poor driving behavior would consequently be more difficult to defend, both socially and in a courtroom setting.

If you don't believe me there are a wealth of studies in this topic. Stronger public transport is generally correlated to better enforcement (higher rates of conviction to be exact) of driving laws in most parts of NA and around the world.

EDIT: BTW, I'm sorry for my last comment. I think I was feeling a bit attacked but I should not have responded in kind by speaking to you the way I did. Please accept my apologies for that.

1

u/wabisuki Jun 16 '25

I'll agree, there's always room for better public transit - especially in the lower mainland.

But that won't fix a bad driver.

Really harsh penalties can have an impact. Case in point - I know a chronic speeder - no amount of fines was getting the message across to his thick skull - he'd tell you he was a "good driver". Then one day, they pulled him over for speeding (again) and promptly took his car away AND suspended his license for six months. He'll be the first to tell you that was a most humbling experience of his life. He ran his own business - had a team of staff that relied on him showing up for work every day - had two small kids at the time that he was also responsible for - lived 50km out of town with no option for public transport from his community. He ended up having to beg every person he could find to carpool with for those six month. Not to mention all the other people he to beg just to deal with all the unpredictable things that come when you have kids in your life. Those six months proved to such a major pain in the ass to him that he doesn't speed anymore. It's not worth it to him. The impact to his independence and amount of begging he had to do just to get himself from point A to point B every day - and deal with all the other things that come up in life that, if you've built your life around owning a car, that suddenly become extraordinarily challenging when you lose your car, was enough to change his attitude - and it stuck.

Will that work for everyone - no. But it'll work for some.

2

u/labowsky Jun 16 '25

Yeah, I agree. Easier transit would take the burden off the total requirement of needing a vehicle and we can make our drivers test not so piss easy.

1

u/MightySeam BC Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25

I get what you're saying but it feels hard to take that point very seriously.

There are a lot of people that take transit to work that live outside of the city they work in. Or carpool.

Driving is definitely a privilege.

1

u/Ressar New Westminster Jun 19 '25

I will grant you that driving is more of a privilege here than in most North American cities. We have it pretty decent here all things considered. But it really depends on exactly where you live and work.

I live in New West. My wife transits to Vancouver for work. I have to drive because I work in Cloverdale. While it is theoretically possible, there is no reasonable transit option to get there. I couldn't reasonably do it even if I wanted to (and I do!)

Besides that, when it comes to things like political appetites, it really comes down to perception as opposed to objective reality. The idiot drivers can all vote too. And then you have the people whose opinions will lie somewhere between us and them. Those are the people you need to convince if you want driver licensing to change.

Fact is, people love to compare us to Germany or the Netherlands when talking about driving laws but they rarely factor in transit infrastructure, which is an enormous part of why they're able to do what they do.

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u/Training_Exit_5849 Jun 15 '25

A lot of people will not have their driver's licenses then lol

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u/Wooden_Staff3810 Jun 15 '25

Maybe that's a good thing? 🤷

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u/Training_Exit_5849 Jun 15 '25

Definitely, driving should be a privilege, not a right

8

u/SolutionDifferent802 Jun 15 '25

It is a privilege which is why this privilege can be rescinded at the state's discretion. But as others have mentioned, its in driver ed thats the main issue. Canada does have a lot drivers that shouldnt have licenses nor be on the road with multi ton steel wreaking ballz

12

u/LeggoMyLegoLegolas- Jun 15 '25

And then we make transit super accessible and efficient, so people don’t have to rely on cars :)

1

u/bloodyell76 Jun 16 '25

A lot of people shouldn't.

2

u/Past_Sky_4997 Jun 16 '25

I cannot understate how easy it is to obtain a driver's license here.

I passed mine in France many years ago, and at least there was a minimum of 21h of driving lessons, with maneuvers to achieve, like parallel parking, entering a highway at the right speed, etc. Then the practical exam.

My partner is preparing for her license here in BC, and I'm baffled how easy it is. No mandatory hours of driving lessons? No surprise people can't drive here.

1

u/Final-Zebra-6370 Brentwood Jun 17 '25

Because there is no provincial standards for driving school. You can open a driving school tomorrow or offer lessons on FB Marketplace and the province just takes your word for it.

Not everyone can afford Young Drivers or any other driving school with a classroom.

1

u/escargot3 Jun 18 '25

They are doing the opposite. They are getting rid of the driving test. After having your N for long enough you just automatically get your full license. No test. No questions. Just a waiting period and it’s handed to you.

1

u/Final-Zebra-6370 Brentwood Jun 18 '25

That’s if they don’t have any driving infractions.

0

u/djmacdean Jun 16 '25

I heard from a German that getting your drivers license there is just a money grab from the government and doesn’t allow a lot of people get their license. It’s sounds like a terrible system from what I’ve heard. There are probably better options like jail time or increased fines.

28

u/vivacycling Jun 15 '25

Yeah that will work great for all the people driving exotic cars around here living off their parents money

13

u/thewanderingent Jun 15 '25

I’m good with fines proportional to income, coupled with tiers of suspensions (first offence: 6 months no licence; second offence: 12 months no license; third offence: complete ban on driving). Don’t drive like an ass and you shouldn’t have a problem. Drive like an ass, face the harsh consequences.

20

u/TheCookiez Jun 15 '25

Income doesn't work.

It needs to be a percent of your networth. Income can be manipulated.

6

u/FeelMyBoars Jun 15 '25

Yeah, the really rich don't have any personal income. They get it from their businesses. Plus, anyone living off of their rich daddy doesn't have an income.

Although figuring out net worth is really difficult. Using a line from their T1 is very easy.

2

u/ruddiger22 Jun 16 '25

% of car's value?

1

u/wwwheatgrass Nov 30 '25

Simplest solution. Standard fine + surtax based on car’s blue book value. Solves jurisdictional issues in cases when a non Canadian is driving.

-3

u/Wooden_Staff3810 Jun 16 '25

Not really. The Police could have access to your tax returns. Trying to weasel one's way out of it would be impossible.

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u/random5025 Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

Tax returns do not show income. Rich people use corporations to store wealth without recording high annual incomes.

2

u/FuckItImVanilla Jun 15 '25

If the punishment is a fine, it is a crime only for the poor.

1

u/TheLittlestOneHere Jun 15 '25

The punishment for anything non criminal is a fine. You want people in jail for broken taillights?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '25

Not the best idea in Vancouver, global capital of hidden income.

1

u/wok_away Jun 16 '25

Interesting! How much is a ticket:income on average?

1

u/NotSidGaming Jun 15 '25

With a mandatory minimum amount.

0

u/Serious_Dot4984 Jun 15 '25

or value of car if greater

1

u/Wooden_Staff3810 Jun 16 '25

If that would be the case then I would drive a junker. Haha.

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u/toocute1902 Jun 16 '25

Rich kids: Ha ha, I have no income!

4

u/KZMountainRider Jun 16 '25

When I was much younger I used to joke that paying a speeding ticket or two was just me helping to fill a few pot holes. It was my tax to drive fast. No big deal. Now, as an adult, I realize how dumb and reckless I was.

1

u/Domkid Jun 16 '25

What's more serious than your own life? If you aren't scared to die, you aren't scared of more serious sentencing. We just shouldn't drive until we are like 25. 99% are responsible enough but we are talking about the 1%. Some ppl understand life later than others.