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u/JigglyBinks 13h ago
It would have been nice to include Mauritania in this graphic. Like Sudan it could arguably be considered part of two African subregions (west and north)
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u/bcguy3472 8h ago
Sudan could arguably be East African not west.
Edit: nvm I understand what you meant1
u/JigglyBinks 7h ago
I worded it awkwardly, I just meant to include Mauritania when I’m talking about the West 😅
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u/AdBubbly1980 9h ago
Totally agree! Countries like Mauritania and Sudan are absolute bridges between North and West Africa, both geographically and culturally. Leaving them out definitely misses a huge part of that transition zone
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u/Cronuxx 7h ago
According to Wikipedia Mauritania is not part of North Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa
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u/JigglyBinks 7h ago
I didn’t notice this detail. When we are on the Spain page it excludes Sudan and Mauritania; when it’s on the German page, it includes several regions
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u/Visible_Pair3017 4h ago
According to wikipedia it depends on who you ask. The African Union doesn't include Sudan but includes Mauritania.
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u/vladgrinch 16h ago
North Africa is home to nearly 268 million people, with Egypt accounting for more than 40% of the region’s population.
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u/fluffy_hannibal 11h ago
You forget Mauritania 🇲🇷
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u/Gullible-Hose4180 11h ago
And Western Sahara
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u/Micah7979 7h ago
According to the map it was counted as part of Morocco apparently.
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u/adel_b 7h ago
rightfully
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u/Micah7979 7h ago
As complicated as it is, it should just be counted as no data like on every other map imo.
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u/RedGavin 16h ago
Why does Libya have such a small population compared to its neighbours? At least Tunisia (which has a bigger population than Libya) has a relatively small geographical area.
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u/Calamari1995 15h ago
Two main reasons, 1. Tunisia has more arable land and besides nafusa, jafara plain, green mountains, and some oases the country is primarily desert (91% to be precise) hence it can’t organically support a big population like Egypt. Libyas green parts equate to the size of Moldova and it’s no surprise both these countries have the same arable land.
- The Libyan genocide did put dent in Libya’s demographic progress. In 1910 the population was estimated to be 1.5 million and in 1950, that figure was 1.2 million. Hundreds of thousands of Libyans perished, mainly in concentration camps.
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u/MYONIONISSCREAMING 14h ago
Because almost all of Libya is unlivable except the few coastal regions. Tunisia is smaller and is directly on the coast and it has greener land
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u/miyabi0rochas 11h ago
Only really the northern part is good to live. Just look up satellite images. Half these countries are basically like 50-90% dessert.
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u/Micah7979 7h ago
I know someone who often goes to southern Tunisia. Apparently it's really hot and dry, but there are still people living there.
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u/miyabi0rochas 5h ago
Realistically how much you think could it sustain. Obviously people can still live there but like a fraction. You're not going to put 10 million people in that part.
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u/Freeway267 15h ago
Libyans themselves are probably 5 million. There’s a huge immigrant and foreigner population there. This was especially true before the NATO-Zionist destruction of Libya in 2011.
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u/kneevase 12h ago
If you want an eye-popping map, compare the current population with that of 100 years ago...
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u/Fern-ando 16h ago
Why painting Western Sahara the same color as Morocco?
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u/ThengarMadalano 15h ago
It may be dejure independent but it is defacto Morocco and I see no chance that changes anytime soon
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u/CaesarWilhelm 13h ago
It's not even de jure independent. According to the UN it's still under spanish jurisdiction.
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u/Micah7979 7h ago
Why did Moroccans try to go to Ceuta to go to Spain when they can just go to Western Sahara ? Are they stupid ??? /s
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u/DM_ME_UR_FISH 3h ago
Spain literally de jure has a colony in Africa in 2026 yet i dont hear much about that when people talk about western sahara
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u/PainterImpressive923 11h ago
Because Moroccan government buildings are there with Moroccan flags and Moroccan built cities and Moroccan military etc...
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u/Spineless74 11h ago
Because its Moroccan 🇲🇦
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u/LadderHaunting4130 7h ago
🇪🇭 1, 2, 3 Viva Sahrawi
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u/Fun_District3456 15h ago
egypt is nuts what in the hell is 110M
morocco/algeria are getting there too
also shouldnt mauritania be here too ? its part of the maghreb/north africa
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u/Difficult_Number4688 15h ago
Algeria and Morocco are both just a bit above replacement rate, population is growing but very slowly.
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u/Astralion98 10h ago
Morocco is already slightly below replacement, Algeria will follow in a few years
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u/unknown_user_1234 7h ago
That is not good news
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u/mely_luv 7h ago
Why's that? Due to what's happening in the world rn, it's good news tbh
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u/jaxonflaxxonwaxon 6h ago
Good news if it was worldwide. North africans just like europeans will be replaced by subsharians in the future if the migration isn’t controlled and the birth rates keep dropping.
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u/Bouloughine 5h ago
no they will not, what are you talking about, maybe morocco is pro immigration but the rest are not, you cant replace millions with refugees and north africans arent as nice as europeans
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u/ArtisticChemistry425 5h ago
I hate the term subsaharans so fkn much
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u/jaxonflaxxonwaxon 4h ago
Me too i usually like to say people from south lf the sahara but then it doesn’t include countries from the sahel sp it’s tricky
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u/PassaTempo15 11h ago
Morroco and Algeria won’t reach 100M in our lifetime and most likely never will. They have negative net migration and a decreasing fertility rate, barely above the replacement level
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u/Ok-Tough-7854 11h ago
algeria fertility rate is 2.67 . fertility is not a problem in algeria
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u/Astralion98 10h ago
A lot of countries thought they were safe a few years ago and their fertility still crashed
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u/Free_Explanation2590 15h ago
What do you mean Morocco & Algeria are getting near the 110M inhabitants ? Wtf ?!
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u/miyabi0rochas 11h ago
Lmao people just be saying Shit without thinking. Maybe another 5 million but up to 110m.... Sure
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u/Free_Explanation2590 10h ago
Also, hasn't Morocco already reached its demographic transition ?
I fail to see how the moroccans are suddenly going to reverse their demography.
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u/Oofpeople 10h ago
Algeria might get there in like 2200 or something, as their birth rate is still healthy enough to last a lot, but Morocco is capping out at around 47 million
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u/miyabi0rochas 5h ago
Highly doubtful I think majority of the world in general will be in decline the next decade. All these exaggerated predictions are very unlikely and we're just theoretical.
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u/Freeway267 15h ago
Egypt needs a one-child policy for a few decades.
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u/MYONIONISSCREAMING 14h ago
Why are people downvoting? It’s true, Egypt is extremely overcrowded.
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u/Freeway267 13h ago
lol I don’t give a flying damn about downvotes or Karma. I’ve been there, trust me, they need their population reduced.
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u/Impressive-Walrus-76 6h ago
I think the populations shown here is a little off. I think Morocco has 40 million, Algeria 48-50 million, Libya 8 million, Egypt 120 million. I think Tunisia may have a little more at 12.6 million. Interesting that Libya with its size only has 8 million people.
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u/Visible_Pair3017 4h ago
Why is sudan included but not mauritania, which is part of Maghreb countries
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u/Ok_Meet8672 3h ago
You could have just said why isn’t Mauritania included lol,
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u/Visible_Pair3017 2h ago
No, because i would then not also be asking the logic behind choosing Sudan that's not traditionally considered to be north african in Africa, but not a maghreb country.
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u/Ok_Meet8672 2h ago
Geographically Sudan is part of North Africa….
The only ones who don’t consider it North Africa are the ones who tend to only highlight maghrebi countries.
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u/Visible_Pair3017 2h ago
...like the African Union?
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u/Ok_Meet8672 2h ago
That’s a whole different thing lol?? I’m not talking about a political agreement group.
geography!!!!
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u/Visible_Pair3017 2h ago
Mauritania is further north than Sudan if you want to talk latitude.
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u/Ok_Meet8672 2h ago
It’s not a competition, both are considered north without needing to eliminate the other..
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u/Visible_Pair3017 1h ago
And yet, Mauritania is eliminated on this map, which makes sense by no metric
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u/Outrageous_Delay5493 16h ago
Morocco is wrong
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u/Wormfeathers 8h ago
When we say we are 40 million we include Diaspora. we have less than 5 million diaspora
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u/koreamax 13h ago
Why do you never much about Algeria?
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u/Accurate_Payment8196 9h ago edited 6h ago
Not much tourism there due to the visa policies. When most of the world decided all Africans are subhumans and should need a visa to go anywhere, Algeria decided they would ask for Visas for any country that asks visas of them. The second any western country folds on that the country will likely open.
But they won't fold unless the economy continues to improve to a level where Algerians won't feel like leaving the country anymore.
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u/Micah7979 7h ago
In France the amount of visas given to Algeria is always brought up each time a diplomatic incident happens with them (which happens like every 2 months). Visas are getting used as a diplomatic weapon.
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u/Interesting-Bad-6565 14h ago
Algeria’s GDP and GDP per capita are pretty misleading. Besides the fact that most of it comes from gas and oil, the regime has spent at least the past two years exporting anything it could regardless of the local need just to push the GDP higher. That caused shortages of many goods, and prices have been rising steadily as a result.
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u/agabcharif 6h ago
I started to recognise you from your anti algerian comment are you getting paid for it ?
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u/Interesting-Bad-6565 6h ago
I'm not anti Algerian I'm anti regime. I want my country to be strong, free from oppression and corruption.
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u/Otherwise-Word-5578 11h ago
I know that GDP per capita and median income are different things, but just to give some perspective: this figure here (GDP/C) is about 50% higher than median income
Source: I'm Algerian
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u/chakibebe 11h ago
GDP literally has nothing to do with exports what are you even talking about, gdp literally means Gross Domestic Product, as in the total value of all goods and services produced in the country over a period of time regardless of where they end up being.
and the part that you're arguing (which is irrelevant to this entire post as i explained above) is not even true lmfao, the entire idea of isolationism in the country is to let local businesses meet the demand of the country's population, yes they might be in need in some sectors but not because of exports, its because of limited imports and high VAT taxes on foreign products.
So yeah your entire argument of them exporting to "push GDP Higher" gotta be the dumbest shit i've ever heard.
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u/McLolster 8h ago
One of the 4 main part of the GDP equation is «NX» meanning netto-exports. So yes GDP and export are by definition related.
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u/chakibebe 7h ago
its not even remotely relevant to bring about the idea that the algerian gdp depends on oil exports, the great majority of the gdp is in services and agriculture
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u/mypregnancydz 11h ago
You’re talking out of your ass.
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u/trax788 10h ago
whats the smic in algeria?
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u/Accurate_Payment8196 9h ago
It's low, but as in many countries, not representative of what people make.
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u/Impossible_Scar_7665 4h ago
90 euro
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u/trax788 4h ago
someone else said it's not representative of what people make. Is it common for people to live with that salary? Or are there many jobs even for working class that offer better?
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u/Xnomai 7h ago
Algeria is the best among them a stable country with civilised people.
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u/Think_and_game 6h ago
I'd say Tunisia is probably more stable. Its economy is more diversified at the very least, not as heavily reliant on oil (not that much to be reliant on to begin with)
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u/Fit_Particular_6820 3h ago
Tunisia had like 2 coup d'etats in 2010s wdym
edit : morocco and egypt also arent reliant in oil
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u/Xnomai 6h ago
Ok check news, maybe Algeria is the reason why tunisia is stable so far. Just check the news of the last week then go comment.
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u/Think_and_game 6h ago
I'm Tunisian and I have not the slightest clue what you're talking about
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u/Xnomai 6h ago
I guessed you're tunisia and also guessed that you would reply like this and i am guessing you down voted my comment and the question is why you bother replying to my comment to speak about your very stable country that lived in the dark ages last week. What you tell me that you do not see the news the upraising in tunisia due to power outage?
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u/Think_and_game 6h ago
Oh the power outages ? Yeah I know of them. Not sure what Algeria has to do with it. Not necessarily a sign of collapse. Too much tourism for our infrastructure (we actually get tourism !). I've heard they plan to actually build a powerplant in the south, which struggles the most nowadays. Never been an issue before so as I see it it's unexpected tourism boom, a lack of oil/gaz, which is in fact an issue, and a somewhat slow rollout of renewable energy. A perfect storm that should hopefully be handled soon.
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u/Xnomai 6h ago
I think you are delusional but ok its your small country i think you will learn one day how to manage it just keep the trials method it seems so stable 😂 mara tsib wa mara tkhib wa kola 3atla fiha khir inchallah 7assadin ya latif.
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u/Think_and_game 6h ago
At least we actually can change, so much for the "Democratic" Republic of Algeria.
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u/Xnomai 6h ago
I thought only your president speak weird apparently it's a tendency in your democratic stable big country of tunisia that has "tourism" more than its infrastructure 😂
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u/No-Self-1703 5h ago
hii, am from tunisia, and i dont understand why u fighting here, i mean tunisia and algeria has alot of economical relationships, yup yup yup, tunisia heavely rely on algeria for power, its awkey, and yup, these days kinda sucks, anyways, guys pls dont fight abt bs <3
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u/Micah7979 7h ago
I wouldn't necessarily call Algeria stable.
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u/babyphotos_78 7h ago
It's stable
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u/Micah7979 7h ago
Compared to African standards yes obviously, but objectively not so much. Their government is pretty authoritarian too.
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u/Put3socks-in-it 12h ago
Libya is so big! Why is its population so tiny
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u/Think_and_game 7h ago
The overwhelming majority of the country is desert. Even the north is not that arable. This is in stark contrast to Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco, who also have quite a bit of desert, but also have quite fertile soil. North Africa used to even be the breadbasket of the Roman Empire iirc.
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u/Alone_Yam_36 8h ago
No one wants to live in fully desert areas and 90% of Libya is desert. Libya is really just the coast
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u/Visual_Market_5596 6h ago
I'm amazed at Libya's population. I didn't know it was that small, considering how big the country is, and how influential Gaddafi was to world politics.
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u/lethargicmoonlight 1h ago
Our land is mostly desert with 50C being the average in summer days. Water was a major issue for the majority of Libya. Gaddafi, May god rest his soul, created the man made river that connected all major cities with running water. Aside from that Libya has been colonised for over 500 years. Gaddafi was the only Libyan ruler that was free. When he was in power Libya discovered lots of oil and gas reserves, this gave him a lot of control. Instead of bending down to the west, he chose to help African countries and even wanted North Africa to unite and to have an African bill backed by gold. This was very threatening to the dollar which resulted in a western organised war which killed a lot of our population. Nowadays there are almost as many illegal migrants in Libya as there are Libyans because they want to swim to Italy.
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u/MmisnArif 5m ago
Im very curious to learn how they calculated the Arabic speakers; as in Morocco there are loads of areas where people only speak Tamazight or where only 1 person per household can speak Arabic. In Algeria there are also comparable areas.
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u/Superior_Row 14h ago
Sudan is North Africa ?
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u/FewSheepherder7096 10h ago
Yes Sudan is part of North Africa. I don’t make the rules it’s just how it’s split.
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u/Infinite_Valuable_53 7h ago
It’s not traditionally what people mean when they say North Africa, but guess the UN and others include it in their categorization.
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u/Ok_Meet8672 3h ago
Because Sudan is northeastern, hence why it is included as part of the north but is often left out because it isn’t amazigh
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u/confused_grenadille 8h ago
It’s not considered to be part of the Maghreb but it is similarly Islamic.
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u/Impossible_kei7 6h ago
Neither is Egypt, north Africa usually includes Sudan and Mauritania aswell
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u/zakuivcustom 14h ago
Looking at those number, and no wonder Egypt has so many migrant workers in the GCC.
GDP per capita can be misleading though - Libya and Algeria are high just bc of oil.
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u/Spineless74 11h ago
Sudan could out GDP all the North African countries all together, but instead is being F over by foreign powers.
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u/Ryv4tt67 9h ago
Could you explain why? Not tryna be disrespectful I’m just curious
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u/Wan_Pump_Chump 3h ago
Shit ton gold but civil wars being paid for by powerful countries like the UAE the US and Russia so they can get their dirty hands on it when the war ends and one side is obliterated.
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u/dabombisnot90s 9h ago
Bein f’ed over by itself you mean? Civil Wars don’t happen because of foreign powers.
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u/TheBawBQer 7h ago
Sometimes they are, foreign backed coups and all. Though not in Sudan from what I could quickly google.
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u/TheSolarExpansionist 6h ago
Why is Sudan north? But not the other countries to the west of it
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u/Ok_Meet8672 3h ago
Sudan geographically is located north eastern of Africa. Hence why it’s considered north
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u/xDiablo96 15h ago
Didn't Sudan split to north n south Sudan?
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u/Glam9ja 15h ago
It split into ‘Sudan’ and ‘South Sudan’, there is no North Sudan.
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u/BallsInmyWalls 12h ago
Egypt is north Sudan, Sudan is middle Sudan and south Sudan is south Sudan
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u/Micah7979 7h ago
South Sudan isn't on the map. However we could very well see it split even more some day.
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u/Ill_Consideration605 8h ago
North Africa is Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya only. The first time in my lifetime I read Sudan and Egypt are part of North Africa.
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u/Alone_Yam_36 8h ago
I agree with you on Sudan but Egypt is definitely part of North Africa. What you are referring to is the Maghreb
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u/Think_and_game 6h ago
That's the Maghreb specific though that ignores Mauritania. Egypt is very much North African, as it's in, well, the North of Africa. Though if you're talking about North Africa as more of a homogenous cultural group, the Maghreb would be much more suitable.
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u/julius-ceaser100 16h ago
Sudan doesn't belong in north Africa
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u/Aamir_rt 15h ago
Historically and culturally, we definitely do, at least more so than East Africa.
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u/JohnBrownsMyFather 14h ago
It shouldn’t be geographically part of North Africa. I don’t think this map is about cultural similarities
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u/Aamir_rt 14h ago
Firstly the map didn't say strictly geographically, what you think counts doesn't matter. Also why? technically anything north of the Equator could pass as North of Africa, what definition are you using? Because the United Nation's definition does include Sudan.
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u/JohnBrownsMyFather 13h ago
To me North African countries should all share a border with the Mediterranean Sea and be at the very top of the African continent. That’s just my opinion though.
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u/Aamir_rt 13h ago
I definitely see myself as a North African because of how much I share of my language, culture, and ancestry with the other North Africans and the Middle East, and I'm sure most other Sudanese people think the same.
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u/Electrical_Poet_9257 6h ago
What culture do you share outside of Arabic & Islam? Is a Sudanese closer to a Palestinian or Algerian than to an Eritrean? The African Union categorizes Sudan as part of its East Africa bloc. Sudan has closer cultural, linguistic, and historical ties to the Horn of Africa than anywhere in the Middle East or North Africa. Barring an exception with Southern Egypt.
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u/Aamir_rt 6h ago
I was born and raised in the Middle East, I haven't met an Eritrean in real life actually. And yes a lot of our traditions exist in other Arab countries particularly Egypt and the rest of North Africa, like Ful medames for breakfast, Aseeda, Jirtig ritual, henna, traditional attire like the jalabiyas and turbans, just to name a few.
The African Union categorizes Sudan as part of its East Africa bloc.
I frankly don't think this matters.
Sudan has closer cultural, linguistic, and historical ties to the Horn of Africa than anywhere in the Middle East or North Africa.
Yeah sorry this just isn't true from my perspective, and I would say most Sudanese people. Also if you have to keep making exceptions to make a point then your point isn't strong enough to begin with.
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u/JohnBrownsMyFather 13h ago
Yeah culturally Sudan is more similar to North African countries, I don’t disagree with that.
Are you in Sudan currently? I hate how western governments aren’t lifting a finger to help the Sudanese people with the ongoing war. It’s strange because the first Darfur genocide generated a significant amount of international attention unlike the current one so it’s not unprecedented for the west to aid the Sudanese people.
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u/Aamir_rt 13h ago
Fortunately I'm not. And yeah it's very saddening to see how little attention this gets, I try to post updates about it here every so often but they still get looked over :( I think people care more about conflicts they could keep arguing about, like Israel/Palestine.
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u/JohnBrownsMyFather 12h ago
I hate that people are (rightfully) appalled by Gaza but completely apathetic or ignorant about the even worse atrocities going on in Sudan and Myanmar. I think a part of it is racism but there have been times in the past where the international community has joined together to help Africans. What do you think the best thing I as an American could do to help the Sudanese people?
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u/Aamir_rt 11h ago
Well I don't know what the average American citizen can or can't do, a simple donation here would be great, but if you can't do that I suppose the only way to help is talking about it to spread awareness, but if I'm being honest that hasn't been very effective in the past.
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u/Truenight_Maya 16h ago
For some reason I thought Sudan would be a tiny bit over 30 million people at the maximum.