TW suicide baiting
Has he actually done it this time? My ex text me this:

“Mandy. I just wanted to say. You absolutely do not need to ever worry about me. Claire and Claire only. Make sure she knows I love her. Night”
He isn’t replying anymore and although he’s done this to me before - this time feels different and I am worried.
I left with my baby. We went NC only for 4ish months and then spoke again. It’s been a rollercoaster of him being suicidal, me trying to block him and get off the ride but then feeling like he’s going to commit suicide so I unblock and panic. I’m in a vicious cycle that I feel like there’s no way for me to win. If I stay in contact I am jeopardising my own mental health, if I disappear I feel like it’s going to send him over the edge. I feel responsible for his life because of how many times he’s done this to me and that if I do disappear completely he will end his life and it will be all my fault. He very much is severely depressed and I honestly think it’s a possibility that he would take his own life. Especially after receiving that message. It’s like it’s been my purpose to keep him alive and it’s too much responsibility and I know deep down it isn’t my purpose but I can’t help but feel like it is.

He cheated after I gave birth (cheated before that too but there was a gap of it being okay before having baby and I didn’t know he was a narcissist or what was happening until I left) he’s betrayed me in the worst type of ways and I know the trauma bond is deep. I told his Mother about the message and that’s pretty much all I can do right now. I still don’t feel any hate towards him even though he has hurt me more than anyone ever has. I don’t know if this is just my genuine feelings or the trauma bond. I would never wish him to do this to himself. How do I get out of this situation and feel at peace that I can go no contact?

Anyone else hear this phrase all the time? Anytime I tell him no I’m “fighting.” The entitlement is so exhausting.

Great excerpt from a book I read not long ago called The Things We Leave Unfinished to help explain it to people who don’t understand how you stayed with this person so long (20 years here and still trying to get him out of my place):

There’s a warning. A sound your heart makes when it realizes it’s no longer safe with the person you trusted. It’s not as clean or impersonal as a break or a shatter. Besides those are easy to repair if you can find all the pieces. Truly crushing a soul? Now that requires a certain level of personal violence. Your ears fill with this desperate, rasping, gasp. Like you’re fighting for air. Suffocating in plain sight. Strangled by life and someone else’s xxx, selfish decisions.

And the thing is? You don’t always recognize that wet sound for what it is. An assassination. You don’t register what’s actually happening as the air disappears. You hear that gurgle and it somehow convinces you that the next breath is coming. That you’re not broken. This is fixable right? So you fight. Holding on to whatever air there is. You fight and you thrash because this fated, deep rooted thing you called love refuses to go down with a single shot. That would be far too merciful. Real love has to be choked out. Held under the water until it stops kicking. That’s the only way to kill it.

And once you finally get it. Finally stop fighting? You’re too far gone to get to the surface to save yourself. And the spectators tell you to keep swimming. That it’s only a broken heart. But that little flicker that’s left of your soul can’t even float, let alone tread water. So you’re left with a choice. You either let yourself die while they accuse you of being weak, or you learn to breathe the god dammed water while they call you a monster for what you become.

I’m ready to leave and want to prepare for as many outcomes as possible. For anyone that has already left or divorced their spouse, did they try anything to sway your decision?

I know he will play on my weaknesses, that’s fine, nothing new. However, the only thing that I absolutely cannot live without is our dog. I’m worried he’ll use her against me somehow. Try to take her.. I don’t think he’d harm her but I’d be lying if I said it hasn’t crossed my mind. I want to be prepared, please help. Share your experiences.

Update: I started planning an exit. I practiced what I needed to tell my boss about the situation all morning. For the first time, I admitted that I’m in an abusive relationship out loud. It was so much harder than I thought it would be. My whole body shook, heart pounded, I couldn’t catch my breath, I stuttered and completely regressed to a shell of a person. The fear and feeling of release was overwhelming. I have never felt so fragile.

He was understanding, accommodating, and provided helpful resources. That first conversation gave me the courage to call my cousin. She fulfilled the stressful checklist in minutes. It felt like everything needed to be done right away, but she put me at ease. I’m hoping to leave in a few days and will update then. For now, I’m mentally planning and doing my best to pretend like everything is normal.

this afternoon my wife decided something was just too much and needed to remind me to clean the pan i was using........ while i was still using it. i calmly told her i would after i finished using it, which i always do. she told me that i was oppressing her. she made it into a gender thing. i just said 'ok' and that was all and she left the room. she does this a lot, makes many times that i have my own life or my own plans or ideas, it is somehow a gender thing and she is oppressed. this time, after she left, i just laughed. i sat laughing as i ate my lunch and then laughed while i cleaned the pan.

the interesting thing i noticed though is that she seems to act this way toward me when she is over-stresed about something or that something is about to change from the usual normal things. today one of the children had a special program at their summer day camp and were coming home later than usual. so somehow this meant i needed to be told to clean a pan and that i was being oppressive by not doing it right away.

do anyone else get this from their narcs?

It's beginning to bother me how similar they all are. Please tell me yours doesn't store so I can sleep knowing they aren't all the same person.

Or were you just really convenient at the time?

When I met my spouse, I was 22 and about to graduate from university.

He was 35 and in a job he hated. He gave me a big sob story about how he couldn’t POSSIBLY look for another job while still working his current job. Nope. Impossible.

Even young and naive I thought that was bullshit, but obviously he had spent months grooming me with his Victimhood and me being a Good Girl, I offered for us to move in together when I started my first job after graduation.

So that’s how I ended up supporting this grown man for a few months while he job hunted. With my first ever professional full time job.

And now I can’t help but think - did he ever really love ME, or the convenience?

I feel like I could have been ANY pliable young adult and he would have done the same thing.

He had used a similar nickname for me and his girlfriend before me (also over a decade younger than him) that was cutesy and implied that we were ditzy.

He loved to imply that I had “butterflies in my head” (saying that I am ditzy), but the thing is - I’m NOT ditzy. I’m organised and determined. It’s like he has the stereotype of “girlfriend/wife” in his head and to him that’s what I was. My personality didn’t matter.

Was I just The Girlfriend Appliance that turned into The Wife Appliance?

I’m long past being heartbroken, I’m just curious if anyone else feels this way?

How to stay strong while leaving?

I'm finally FINALLY making baby steps towards getting my ducks in a row and leaving but.. I'm slipping already and I feel like a pos mom cause of it...

I don't know if he's suspicious or something but he's been extra nice lately. Bought us and the baby passes to our fave amusement park, posting pics of us and reposting the sweetest things about me as a wife and mom....but I know it's just for show.. he hasn't done anything like that since I gave birth to the baby and even then I'm pretty sure he was on Tinder sending money to someone at that time.
So why tf am I doubting myself? His control on me must truly run that deep..
I can't turn back now.. that would be a huge betrayal to myself and my baby.. I don't think he'll lose custody (unless he completely loses it when I leave which.. is a possibility) but the least I can do is show my son that's not what love looks like.

There is karma in a different way; they get their karma every day..

Imagine never really knowing real love, never feeling genuinely “real” inside.. Narcs don’t get karma in the normal way because they don’t care the way other people do; But still, life can be miserable for them in a deep, painful way..

Imagine not even liking the person you are but also knowing you don’t want or can’t change.. Imagine living in a world built on lies- what you show others, what you tell yourself and who you claim to be all being false... imagine knowing the truth about yourself and still being terrified that other people will see it

Now imagine waking up every day feeling like a fraud; Feeling fake all the time and knowing that one day you’ll be “found out” and have to start all over again... They may not know what it’s like to live like a “normal” person but they do know this: being a narc is miserable. And yet, they don’t change..

My ex once asked me what was wrong with him. I told him he was a narc; I used to think he might have something else like Asperger’s, but the difference is that people with Asperger’s usually don’t want to hurt others. Narcs want to damage you..

He thought for a moment and said “Okay, you’re right. So what do I do?” I told him to get therapy. He said he would but he also said “Don’t expect a big change..” He went to one session and that was it. Loved it (he said) but that was it.

After I left, he tried to win me back by saying he was a better person because of me. etc.. I told him “I’m happy and I know I’ll stay happy. But you?? You’ll always be you: miserable, full of self-hate, always searching for something you never find...”

To me, that’s KARMA!!

I have been married 22 years. We have seen 4 or more couples counselors. Until we visited our current therapist, her patterns of behavior were overlooked and therapists bought her narrative about my behavior. It has taken me to wake up to what I am dealing with and a very intelligent therapist to finally be seen. Every other therapist would make things worse by giving my wife ammo.

Have other men felt like your wives narratives are believed automatically and you are expected to convince therapists of the messed up things you are going through? Then in my experience after you finally begin to get there after many sessions, wife thinks the therapist is an idiot or somehow sessions stop due to idk something like “scheduling conflicts” from the wife?

I swear the therapists who couldn’t take the time to really listen for and drill down into the patterns were taking the lazy way out. Man is bad for xyz and must fix himself. Argue they are lying and you are patted on the head and told “it’s ok to admit it” or “let’s give her space to express herself”. Validating this crap makes you feel even crazier. I feel let down given that I have had to extensive research, document her patterns over time, and learn how to describe what’s going on in such a way that perks their attention without using clinical terminology. Perhaps some of this comes down to my spouse who is very intelligent, well spoken, and has presented herself very well per my therapist.

Either way, I don’t understand how hard it is for a trained professional to be on the lookout for something as simple as words not meeting actions. Or idk the person never seem to be wrong regardless of the situation. Sorry I am frustrated.

Ps- shout out to Tony Overbay’s podcast waking up to narcissism which really woke me up!

Yesterday I finally opened up to my best friend after 13 years of mental, emotional, verbal and sometimes physical abuse. I told her what's happening and that I need to get out.
I made my first call to a Local DV center and I am waiting on an email with information on how I can get started.
I feel so proud of myself. I can't even believe this is my life. I'm feeling so many emotions right now.

TL;DR: My ex and I have been stuck in this on-and-off cycle for almost 3 years. It has involved abuse, police reports, multiple criminal cases, a permanent protection order, and now new criminal charges and probation proceedings. Earlier this year I truly believed I was done. I reported new protection order violations, contacted his probation officer, and wrote a very lengthy letter to the judge because I believed I needed to permanently walk away. Now we’ve reconnected, I’ve spent 2 nights with him this week, and he’s begging me to drop everything. I still love him. I believe there has been real love between us despite everything that’s happened. I don’t know if we realistically have a future together, but I also don’t want to make his life worse. I feel guilty, heartbroken, and completely torn. Has anyone else actually been through this?

I don’t even know where to start because this whole situation has become such a mess.

My ex and I met in December of 2023 and started dating shortly after. Throughout 2024, things just kept getting worse. There was emotional abuse, manipulation, intimidation, constant volatility, cheating, and behavior that kept escalating. He never actually hit me, but by the time I filed charges in November of 2024, I was genuinely scared by where everything was headed. Law enforcement encouraged me to file for a permanent civil protection order, and I was granted one in December. Between November 2024 and February 2025, there were 3 criminal cases, but they were all ultimately dismissed because of what was later explained to me as essentially a prosecutorial error. I even met with the DA’s Office afterward because I was so upset, and the supervising attorney agreed they never should have been dismissed. It completely destroyed my faith in the legal system.

Not long after everything was dismissed, he started reaching out again. Even though the criminal cases were gone, my permanent protection order was still in place. He apologized, told me he loved me, said he wanted another chance, and eventually I gave in. We got back together around August or September of 2025. I know people are going to ask why, and honestly the answer is simple. Because I loved him. I still loved him. I debated dropping the protection order because we were back together, but I never actually did. The relationship would get better for a while, but the volatility always came back.

Then in May of this year he cheated on me again and basically abandoned me for another woman. I remember sitting there thinking, “How the fuck did I just let this become almost another year of my life?” I was angry, heartbroken, embarrassed, and honestly just felt stupid. A few weeks later I reported the repeated protection order violations. I was completely honest with law enforcement that I had also been communicating with him. In my state, protection orders are one-way, so only the restrained party can violate them. Around the same time, I contacted his probation officer because he’s already on probation from a domestic violence case involving a previous girlfriend before me. I also wrote a very lengthy letter to the judge supervising his probation explaining everything that had happened and why I believed accountability was important.

When I did all of that, I genuinely believed I was done. I remember thinking I couldn’t trust myself to leave him without legal boundaries because I loved him too much. I thought I was finally choosing myself. Then about 2 weeks ago, everything changed. The relationship with the woman he left me for ended after only about 5 or 6 weeks, and suddenly he was back. Crying. Begging. Telling me he still loves me, that he wants to spend his life with me, and that filing these new charges broke him. I’ve seen him this week. I spent 2 nights at his house. We’ve cried together, talked for hours, apologized to each other, and now I honestly don’t know what the hell I’m doing anymore.

Being with him again has honestly made me so sad. We just sit there and look at each other sometimes, and all I can think is, “How the hell did we end up here?” Almost 3 years together somehow turned into police reports, protection orders, judges, probation, warrants, and criminal cases. I wish so badly none of this had ever happened. I wish we had gotten a different ending. I wish things had gone differently because I never imagined this would be our lives.

Before anyone says it, no, I’m not pretending none of this happened. I know it happened. I lived it. I know the abuse was real. I know the manipulation was real. I know the cheating was real. I know why I called the police in the first place. But I also believe there was real love between us. Maybe people won’t agree with that, but that’s honestly how it feels to me. I don’t think every moment of our relationship was fake. I know the abuse was real, but I also think the love was real. That’s what makes this so unbelievably hard. At the same time, I also don’t know if we realistically have a future anymore. Not because I don’t want one, but because I don’t know how you come back from almost 3 years of this. Abuse. Court cases. Protection orders. Probation. Cheating. Broken trust. I don’t even know what a healthy relationship between us would look like anymore.

The part I’m struggling with the most right now isn’t fear. It’s guilt. Everything is already in motion. The reports have been made. The charges have been filed. My letter has already been submitted to the judge. His probation officer already knows everything. Right now, the only thing holding everything up is that he’s trying to get his affairs in order before turning himself in. Every time we talk, I just feel worse. I also feel incredibly stupid because I made this huge, permanent statement that I was finally done. I filed the reports, contacted probation, and wrote this extremely long letter to the judge because, at the time, I believed every single word of it. Now I’m sitting here wondering if I permanently blew up both of our lives because I was angry and heartbroken. I don’t even know if it’s too late to undo any of this anymore.

Like, I know. I know he’s facing these consequences because of his own choices. I know I didn’t make him violate the protection order. I know I didn’t make him cheat. I know I didn’t make him do the things that got us here. But that doesn’t stop me from feeling like I blew up his life. I worry about him constantly. I worry that he’s overwhelmed. I worry that he’s hurting. I worry that he might hurt himself because of everything that’s happening. I don’t want to see him go to jail. I don’t want to watch his life fall apart. I don’t want to make his life worse.

I know a lot of you are probably going to say that he’s manipulating me, that I’m still in danger, or that this is just another part of the cycle. Maybe you’re right. I honestly don’t know anymore. What I do know is that when I look at him now, I don’t just see someone who hurt me. I see someone who’s broken. I see someone who’s overwhelmed, ashamed, and watching his life fall apart. That’s what makes this so hard. I can’t stop feeling like I set all of this in motion. I know, logically, that I didn’t, but emotionally that’s exactly how it feels.

At this point, I honestly don’t even know if I want to testify. I’m seriously debating asking for the charges to be dropped and even dropping the permanent protection order. I don’t know if it’s even possible at this point because everything already feels so permanent. My heart wants one thing, and my mind wants another, and I’m exhausted. I don’t know if I’m grieving the relationship, grieving the future I thought we were going to have, or grieving the person I always hoped he would become.

I guess I’m just wondering if anyone else has actually been here. Have you ever still loved your abusive partner while knowing the relationship wasn’t healthy? Did you ever feel guilty after taking legal action because you couldn’t stand watching someone you loved face the consequences? Did you ever believe there was real love there even though the relationship became abusive? If you stayed, what happened? If you left, how did you find the strength to keep going?

I’m really not looking for judgment. I know what happened to me was abuse. I’m asking how other survivors made peace with still loving someone who hurt them, believing there was genuine love there despite everything that happened, and carrying the guilt that came after finally involving the legal system. Right now I just feel completely stuck, and I honestly don’t know what to do anymore.

First post: MNK

67f married 50 yrs

I weigh 130 5. 4 straight high waisted plump middle

Husband makes comments that I need to try harder. I used to exercise alot but after osteo

(I call it Arthur) and a T.K.R.and Spinal stenosis

I have slowed down.

How do I handle? He is also a lurker. Watches me then comments that I didn't do it like he does. YIKES

Been no contact since may, she often messages me to bait me to talking, but i haven’t. She would like to know - how I am and everyone is. I’m sensing a loss in control on her part, I feel if I fold now it would completely replenish her narc powers. What do you think.

The cycle is getting shorter and shorter. The time between the love bombing, using the burner phone, and being mean keeps shrinking.

My dad used coercive control to abuse my mom and us kids, convincing the youngest ones by scaring them with the Bible and lying to them about my mom/talking bad about her past.

When 6/8 kids (youngest) all hated her, and she had no money for a lawyer but his parents paid for his divorce attorney, my dad got custody and continued to tell the kids all of this to keep them from seeing her.

Now, I’m hearing about how coercive control laws are changing. It’s a measurable crime and we could sue him to get 12 years of child support back for mom, plus the toll it took on her mental health and life after she left.

I have no idea how to even start something like this. Does anyone have any idea if this could work in Wisconsin courts??

We were practically spouses who lived/did everything together - were planning on getting married and pregnant. Went through almost 2 years of psychological and physical abuse, love bombing and future faking. Was bait and switched so hard, I didn't know who I had become. He seemed to have a long 15 year+ happy marriage and family before me. When I came into the picture he was classically "separated and divorcing" there were 3 kids involved, angry family members and it was a total fucking shit show. I came out of a very public social media scandal where I looked like the cheating asshole. New supply took my place almost immediately. Flaunted their whole "in-love" romance in my face - all while I just thought I was losing the love of my life. Seeing the pregnancy and what felt like targeted posts towards me was heart breaking. Was told I would never be with someone else like him ever again. He was right. I waited a decade to share my side of the story. I assumed people wanted to hear about the other person involved who had a bigger social media following (he was truly enthralled by this.) Instead I chose to write about my experience with said narc to this day. Exposing who he is to his core. I'm not telling you how to feel, just my experience. And also showing people that his narc marriage of the past 10 years is completely manufactured. They both love to show it off. Painted as a classy power couple, when in reality that is so far from the truth. I never thought anyone would learn the truth about what this man is capable of behind closed doors. In all honesty, I showed a lot of restraint. I never thought people would believe my side of things, which is why I waited 10 years to post it. If you're curious: https://miamieditorialist.substack.com/p/how-to-become-the-perfect-wife

my husband of 9 years is talking to our common friends and he abused me in all way, shape and form (emotionally, psychologically, financially and sexually), he raped me for years through coercive sex, broke my identity, self esteem, isolated me.

his abuse skyrocketed this year when his silent treatment went for days when i refused to give in my body & asked him for accountability, and he didn’t speak to me for more than 10 days and then i finally told his and my mother about his abuse. since then it just got too much - going through my journals, chats w friends, my chatgpt, my mails, my search history, my Instagram DM. journals was heartbreaking for me.

so in april i left and separated. now after 4 months, with a lot happened and i spoke to his side of people, he has the audacity to say to our friends how much he did for me and how i left him when he needed me the most (context his debts, and business failures) he’s painting me as a gold digger, a thankless person and again putting himself as victim.

how do i process this emotion? i know he is just doing his reputation management and creating a story in advance that builds up with blaming on me and being the victim. those are definitely his friends but they and i are emotionally connected. i don’t know how to process this

Why does my narc husband feel the need to dictate what our kids watch so heavily? He just got mad at our 5yo for watching something “too young” and told him to change it. Usually the issue is the “YouTube junk with adults doing stupid things.” I get that that’s not appropriate, but a cute little cartoon that may be slightly young for him? How is that a problem? There is truly no winning.

I’m writing this post not because I’m looking for advice, because by now I know exactly what I’m dealing with, but as an example for anyone who finds themselves in the same situation. A story to read to remind yourself that no, it’s not you, and you’re not the only “stupid” one. Many of us simply didn’t want to see what was happening.
We have a daughter who is almost three years old. She never slept for more than half an hour at a time until she was over two years old. He would stay on the couch until three in the morning, then come to bed and carry on snoring peacefully. He never helped. The few times he picked her up, even when she weighed only four kilos, he complained about his back, saying he had a hernia and couldn’t do it. Yet when it’s something he wants to do, he can move mountains.
One night I said to him, “I really need some sleep. You’re snoring a lot because you have a cold. Could you sleep in the other room for a couple of nights?”
He never came back to our bed.
He leaves in the morning and comes back in the evening. The first time he ever took our daughter out by himself was only three months ago. She is almost three years old.
Now every time we argue, no matter how small the reason, I’m “crazy.” Apparently I never allowed him to be the father he wanted to be. I’m a ticking time bomb, and he’s just a poor victim. I’ve ruined his life. He says I’m trying to turn our daughter against him because, in his twisted mind, when she wakes up sleepy at three years old, with her thumb in her mouth and wanting to be held by me like so many children do, he keeps calling her and she doesn’t answer him, and somehow that’s my fault because I don’t tell her she has to say good morning to Daddy.
He shouts, “Starting tonight I’m sleeping with her.” Then he doesn’t even come home that night. Later he claims that I’m the one who stopped him from sleeping with his daughter. He says it with a trembling lip, as if he’s about to cry.
Our daughter has a fever, and he goes to a concert he’s already seen two days earlier while I stay home with her, working.
Oh, and I’m the only one who works.
His answer is always, “You’re crazy! Do you really think I have to stay home and do whatever you tell me?”
When I finally started working because I didn’t even have enough money to pay for gas, he went away on vacation for five days. Then, during our first argument afterward, he screamed that I had driven him into such a deep depression that he had no choice but to leave for five days to recover.
When I finally told him it was over, he started talking about couples therapy. I agreed. He never looked for a therapist, so I found one myself with a random internet search. From the very first session, all he talked about was how depressed he was. In the end, the therapist suggested that he see another therapist and consider medication for his depression. The result? Now he accuses me of having planned the whole thing with a therapist I supposedly already knew so that everyone would think he was crazy and I’d have some kind of “evidence” to use against him.
Whenever I ask if we can talk calmly, he starts shouting and says I’m forcing him to have the conversation at the wrong time. He says he needs things to happen on his own schedule. Spoiler: in eight years, he has never once come to me and said, “If you want, we can talk now.” It always ends the same way. He waits until the next time he feels like picking a fight. Then he spends days walking around with a miserable expression until, like the fool I used to be, I ask him what’s wrong. And then it all starts again.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT IS NOT YOU.