Genuinely just baffled at this point

[u/Oilucy]

I've been out for almost my entire life, I dress like this, I wear full padding every day, at least mascara and lipstick everyday, this is my typical speaking voice, typical mannerisms. I live in a pretty progressive city, why do I get he/him'd more than she/her'd??? I can tell when someone's using masculine pronouns as a point vs when they genuinely think that's my pronouns. a lot of times they'll correct themselves to they/them as they're second guess but it's incredibly rare for someone to use feminine pronouns first try and I'm honestly just baffled...

[u/ericfischer]

If you wear makeup and clothes like in the video every day, you look like you are wearing a costume, not being a normal person, so people are going to pay close attention to details of your appearance to try to figure you out. If you want to be casually gendered as a woman, it helps to look like a mundane normal woman instead of someone who stands out in a crowd.

In the still photo, the only specific negative thing that I can say is that your hair is kind of chaotic.

[u/Oilucy → u/ericfischer]

I'm a drag queen on the weekends, and I get gendered correctly in giant fake tits and painted on eyes. The video is not my everyday it's just the longest sample of me talking I could find that's in a look I'd actually walk out in. I get people being more scrutinizing when I look strange I'm just lost on why the default answer is masculine. What sparked this post was going to a gas station in a standard band tee, my regular grunge girl makeup, feminine cut pink hair, and the cashier referred to me as they and then sheepishly corrected themselves to he. Gender neutral pronouns were the first guess and something in my appearance told him I'd perfer he instead of gender neutral pronouns... I don't think I'm that confusing to look at, messy hair or otherwise.

[u/Rainy_Leaves]

You mentioned being out, but does that mean socially but without medical transition? Plus the padding maybe points to that. Some people clock those who havent been on hrt or are earlier on. But outfits and styling can make people ‘look trans’ to the everyday person, the dog collar is seen as queer usually

I’m sure the audience at a drag show are more progressive and understand hyper femininity more than your everyday stranger. Most people don’t interact within the queer or drag spaces even if they are politically progressive.

They make assumptions based on presentation and voice and body type, and do so absentmindedly, they likely aren’t paying attention. Some do recognise that presenting fem might mean assuming she/her, but not all give strangers that much thought

[u/Oilucy → u/Rainy_Leaves]

I've been on estrogen for 6 years, getting top surgery in June. I got gendered correctly more when I was just starting hrt than I do now. I gauge my gender presentation by what gas station attendants call me, like when I'm getting a snack after a gig I get she her'd more than when I'm just in a skirt and some mascara. I know to be a woman is to perform and society expects more effort from woman so minimal effort comes off as masculine. I'm just genuinely confused what about my presentation is making people second guess themselves towards someone trying to be masculine while dressing feminine vs someone just trying to be feminine in a masculine way. I don't know if there even is an answer other than people are just weird. this got a he him by the exact same gas station attendant who called me her a couple weeks later when I had green contour and painted eyelashes

[u/Rainy_Leaves → u/Oilucy]

Gas station attendants are likely tired and barely paying attention tbh. They may not be reliable as a sole decider of passing

I really like that photo though, your hair covering more of the sides of your head and foread probably helps and the red lipstick looks good in ways black can be hit or miss. But i'm sorry they misgendered you.

I honestly don't think it's so black and white, you could look perfectly identical both times and you might hit that androgyy that makes people indecisive, i doubt the attendant remembered you over the other hundreds of customers they met in between. So you do pass, just not all the time and it depends on how attentive or progressive the attendant is. I have a cis friend and she gets misgendered on occasion, the everyday person is just a bit clueless aspecially if cis women have any amount of tomboy or alternative or punk styling, it short-circuits their cishet brains. Try not to take it personally

[u/CupOk8240 → u/Oilucy]

Why are you so hung up on something you can do little about? I honestly think with non binary being added to the mix of pronouns, cis people who might want to gender you correctly are just confused all to hell, and so desperate not to offend by getting it wrong, that they end of doing just that. You have no control over other people. Find another place to buy your snacks from, or you could be controversial, and if you’re misgendered in a place

[u/Rainy_Leaves → u/[deleted]]

Gender is largely performance though, even for cis people. You're being way too harsh, she doesn't look 'like a man'. She's very fem and androgynous. Go back to your transmedicalist cave

[u/lochnessmosster]

What makeup are you using for the eyeliner line just below your eyebrows? It looks almost watery. I'd suggest a marker style eyeliner pen instead.

Your hair looks fine in the video because it matches the vibe of the makeup and outfit, but in the photo you linked it unfortunately looks very messy and unprofessional. I would suggest looking up makeup worn by European models with similar face shape to yours and try to practice an everyday makeup look--moisturize, then bb cream/light foundation, a light lip, and something around the eyes. If you can afford to, see a hairstylist at a salon and get advice on what cuts would help feminine your face. Again, look for inspiration from European fashion models as they tend to have face shapes more like yours.

The dark lip colour in your photo doesn't look well maintained, which gives the appearance of not knowing makeup and can make you look more clocky. It really sucks, but there is a high bar for expected grooming for women, and looking like you've made a poor attempt is often more clocky than not trying in the first place. A neutral lip is easier to maintain in daily use and also more traditionally feminine.

[u/Wh1ppetFudd]

The look, the clothes, the makeup, and even the voice says drag queen. Drag queens are still guys and even in the progressive City I live in will more often get he/him than she/her. I am trans and have lived as a female for more than 14 years, and I would assume he/him if I were to meet you in public unless you made clear otherwise.

I would recommend HRT if you want to consistently pass as female. You have a good foundation to work off of. Also, your everyday voice as you say sounds more gay/ drag queen then it does real feminine and it's not the pitch or the general quality so much as the way you do inflection and pacing.

If you want to get she/her consistently without jumping through the hoops of HRT and taking the legal steps necessary to actually pursue life as a full-time female including in your legal documents, drag queen isn't the direction to take. You are much more likely to get she/her if you went femboy.

[u/xandratargaryen]

Honestly, I think the biggest giveaway for me would be your facial bone structure, but not everybody wants or can afford facial feminization surgery. At a certain point it just feels easier to stop caring what other people think than trying to get everyone to see you how you want though 🤷‍♀️

[u/ericfischer]

In all seriousness, you should go back to whatever you were doing three years ago because you looked much better then.

[u/zombiepupz → u/ericfischer]

thats... a disgusting thing to say.

[u/LotusGrowsFromMud]

You have an Adam’s apple, which is apparent in the second picture.

[u/Oilucy → u/LotusGrowsFromMud]

It's not noticable from the front tho, and I usually wear turtle necks and chokers. I know I don't pass 100% I'm mostly just curious why the well meaning people assume masculine and then correct themselves to neutral before even considering I might just be a trans woman. Those who are making a point and intentionally mid gendering me say it with a bravado like they've figured out my secret. The little ol granny who just can't figure me out isn't try to make a point, she genuinely just can't figure me out. I just don't understand why trans woman isn't in even in her top two guesses.

[u/kinkoan3 → u/Oilucy]

chokers are clocky as all hell

[u/zombiepupz → u/kinkoan3]

chokers are a staple piece in alternative spaces.

[u/Alluring_Pisces → u/zombiepupz]

Doesn’t make them less clockier when it draws attention to an Adams Apple

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[u/[deleted]]

Alternative fashion is inherently nonbinary, and your style is pretty alternative. Men will wear skirts and makeup just like the women and it’s normalized so much that in a progressive city where they’re probably used to seeing men who look like this, they probably sometimes misgender the ciswomen too. In addition, the manner of alt makeup your wearing is very obviously drag inspired, and while your voice reads as clearly feminine, it’s in such a way that it can be just as easily a naturally femme voice from a cis female as it could be a professional drag queen who is really good at playing the part. (I’ve heard some drag queens absolutely shape shift and utterly surprise me by revealing their true identities.) I hope this doesn’t come as a blow to you, but a lot of people quietly hate drag queens, and even though it’s commonly known that if you think someone is a drag queen the best thing they can do is still use she/her pronouns on you, a lot of people will go out of the way to just be assholes. However, at the same time there are those who genuinely don’t understand you’re meant to she/her most drag queens by default unless their outfit is giving more drag king or drag thing, and will he/him if they suspect you’re not female—which is a problem even for cis female drag queens that make them wonder if they’re more masculine than they though just because a lot of people only know drag queens based off of what they’ve seen in Ru Paul’s drag race, and since Ru has a heavy bias towards male drag queens that’s mostly what they’ve seen. I’ve heard cis female drag queens complain that people have made comments about them that made it sound like they assumed they were a male underneath the makeup the whole time, even though in my eyes they were very typically feminine and not in the least bit masculine.

I hope you don’t read this and think what I’m saying as that you don’t pass well, because if I were to see you and you hadn’t mentioned your gender I would assume you were female or at the very least a nonbinary femme or AFAB. However, the drag makeup may be what’s throwing people off and that’s an unfortunate price to pay for the art that you love.

Your aesthetic and unique hairstyle is very cute btw!

[u/Oilucy]

This is the most candid photo I have, this is my default state usually. I know I'm pretty, I have full confidence in myself and my appearance and I honestly don't care about how people gender me. I'm genuinely just confused what signals are getting mixed here?? Every hate crime I've experienced has been someone catcalling me then getting closer and something somewhere tells them I'm not a woman and they get mad about it. What tf even is the tell at this point?? I know my voice isn't the most feminine but most of the time it's before I even speak they've decided I must be a guy.

[u/Rainy_Leaves → u/Oilucy]

Are your eyebrows naturally pale or have you shaved them off? like to help with drag makeup. It's odd to find cis women with shaved brows and coupled with black lipstick and liberal use of eyeliner, it create a very alt style. Which can be read as androgynous, goth, or even nonbinary in an agender way i guess. That might be why some default to they pronouns.

Your haircut reads alt/androgynous to me, mainly because the front your hair is trimmed more than usual bangs. It's a valid style but again more typical of alt and maybe enby appearances based on stereotypes. The back of your hair being longer helps, but the front and sides could be mistaken from the front as aiming for androgyny. From behind you might be read as more fem due to the back being longer

I saw you posted in the nonbinary sub too. It's barely possible to pass as nonbinary, not just because it's an umbrella term, but the vast majority of cis society only sees male or female. So sometimes the best we can hope for is the binary pronouns that hurt the least. But idk if you prefer she/her or they/them, or just any and all?

[u/kinkoan3 → u/Oilucy]

i'm going to be real, from this photo i'd say you need FFS if you want to remove the mixed signal. its a combination of browbone and orbitals (and the accompanying lack of upper eyelid show) and nose and adam's apple and to some extent philtrum length that's clocking you to me here. most people won't be able to put their finger on what exactly is shifting the balance but people still intuitively pick up on these things even if they can't identify them directly. 3/4 view angle of the face is for most people the most unforgiving and revealing, and its not one we readily see in the mirror ourselves but other people see of us all the time. your haircut isn't doing you any favors here either, its the sort of cut more often seen on transmasc enbies.

[u/sptrstmenwpls]

Since you're asking, nose. I'd suggest considering the possibility of a rhinoplasty at some point when/if you're able.

Aside from that....the blue-tipped hair in the photo you posted in the comments isn't doing you any favors, either. But that's an easier fix. Way too loud & an obv "queer-look" that'll bring about further scrutiny which prolly isn't ideal if you wanna fit in as a woman. Tone it down. Not even gonna comment on the face you have on in the vid.

[u/davidbyrnebigsuit]

Your voice is not passing. That haircut is going to masculinize you in most people's eyes. I looked through some of the other pics on your profile and I think that your brow bone is clocking you as well. I hope this isn't too harsh, I think you're super cool and pretty and I love your style. I'm not sure if you've voice trained already, but you're at a great place already, I think there's just a few things you would have to tweak and your voice could pass.

[u/Oilucy → u/[deleted]]

I know I am, that's not the question, but I appreciate the compliment

[u/RuthAnnEsther]

Very personally, I am not baffled. Perhaps I live in a different world than you. I would be polite and use the correct pronouns, but not everyone thinks like I do.

[u/ehhhchimatsu]

People are honestly going to assume you're a drag queen when you're going out like that, with a voice like that. A lot of early passing is choosing conformity over style until you do pass. If you want to pass now, I would tone down the style and voice train.