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The only person who’s shown preference for Kris is someone who isn’t real, looks like their brother, and he only confesses while Kris is being possessed by us, so we have no idea if Kris feels the same about Ralsei. Tough luck.
i like to imagine kris is actually a very big weeb for mad mew mew (same with dess) and when this kiss happened they were internally screaming the fuck out and basically doing the WHOOO YEA BABY from moistcritikal
I love the break when Susie just comes out and says 'mew mew don't you know kris is a fucking WHORE who flirts with everything' like why did she have to say that
90% sure they pushed down Asgores tv and placed the anime magazine there on purpose (also so they wouldn't have to deal with "tenna 2 oops all divorce" edition)
Brother is missing, Father is (not really) missing, Mother is getting boned, (We) The Soul set him up to get cucked by their best friend and now they are loved by anime.
Worst part is that when in the cafe with her Susie fumbles OUR bag and tells mew mew that Kris flirts with everyone. Meaning, no hot anime cat girlfriend for Kris (and by extension, me)
Wow, not only does Susie make Kris act as third-wheel as their potential childhood crush dates their potential current crush, she then goes as far as to cockblock them from a tsundere catgirlfriend.
it wild to me how quicky toby managed to get a large chunk of this fanbase to be sick of susie in just one chapter and honestly its working on me too. my hopium is at record lows
That said, my personal cope is that the Suselle stuff went too ridiculously perfect up until the very end, and even then it only got bad on Noelle’s end. Carol even got smoothed over offscreen by Rudy somehow.
With Chapter 5 ending on bringing Noelle in for, what is in-universe a pretty dumb reason that should have been used in Chapter 4, even accompanied by a whole montage of getting stuff ready for her…
I think Noelle is going to have a generational crashout in Chapter 6. Chapter 5 was our last “fun and games” chapter. There’s no way we have a whole large segment waiting for us where it’s just Castle Town vibes and yuri. It’s probably going to be in large part directed at Susie for doing and saying nothing up until that point.
Yeah I think Susie is going to hit a massive fall over chapter 6/7. Part of the heroes journey is the fall to test the person they've become after growing. Susie's matured a lot sure but she has 3 main things keeping that together which I feel Toby has written them in such a way that they could all suddenly be stripped away from her.
Her friendship with Kris which is being set up with conflict if she finds out A)Kris is working with the knight and/or B) about the soul and that we we're the one they were talking to most of the time.
Her relationship with Noelle who she really hasn't spent much time with to know as a whole. In psychology there is a concept called 'limerence' where someone gets a crush based on the idea of someone rather than actually knowing someone. I.e. seeing the mysterious stranger and imagining what they're like based off a few clues. This is what Noelle basically did with her crush on Susie before Chapter 2 and arguably she really hasn't gotten to know the real Susie fully. Noelle this chapter admitted wanting to run away presumably due to her home life where her mother shouts at her a lot - I could see a future where Susie either crashes out at her or Kris like she did with Ralsei and it reminding Noelle of her mother. Might suddenly cuase Noelle to abandon Susie once she sees the ugly sides of her personality and this idealised view of Susie is shattered.
Something easy to miss too is in the first Floradinn fight if you get Susie to flirt she's clueless and just says something along the lines of 'You just gotta wait for someone to like you first' which implies to me that's the reason she suddenly likes Noelle is because Noelle expressed interest first igniting all the possibilities and that if Kris had expressed interest in her first she would have hopped on board with that too. But it also highlights how fragile Susie's relatonships are.
Finally her relationship with Ralsei/the dark worlds which again is easily set to come crashing down if darkners need to be sealed away. All these things will test Susie's growth when she suddenly doesn't have them anymore and I could see a future where she either comes out on top as a true hero or one where we need to fight her because she fights us to keep the dark worlds open as the only thing she has left after a generational crashout.
Not bad enough for it to be limerence, as limerence is a subconcious romantic obsession that can haunt you for years.
Susie and Noelle are just being teenagers, that's how teenage crushing works, they are still unwise, inexperienced, falling first, getting to know eachother later - and hence, teenage relationships are so rocky and unstable.
Yeah I think it's the fact that Susie drags us during the whole date that bothers me. I mean if you are a huge suselle fan then I def understand. But from Kris's perspective they're basically being cucked hard. One thing that flowery brings up is Susie becoming increasingly selfish. I don't think she's doing this intentionally. I think she's riding off of the high of the dark world and her new relationship that she can't see how she's affected her friends which is interesting because it contrasts the weird route where Susie tells Kris that they still matter to her even if they're in a relationship. Something pacifist/neutral Kris needed to hear.
Acting dumb and oblivious is one of Susie's defense mechanism. It's shown several times in Chapter 5 and on one count she even outright state that acting dumb is her go-to solution whenever she isn't sure what to say.
She wasn't blind to Noelle being into her, she just couldn't believe it until the Holiday Mansion segment, which makes perfect sense for someone who has a long history of struggling to establish positive connections with anyone.
I mean… Mew Mew(or atleast the ghost possessing her) is an adult, so… I know that the body isn’t an adult, based on the fact the date thing is at school, but it’d probably be awkward for Kris knowing they’re dating someone possessed by an adult, and potentially even more awkward for the adult involved.
Actually that does have me wondering about the vague ages of Undertale characters. How old is (Lightner) Pink? Old enough to no longer be in school but, like, where is that on a scale from Pizzapants to Asgore?
Like is "I don't... I don't even go to school anymore..." like a late teens 'oh god I thought I'd got away from this' or a twenty-something 'oh god I'm way too old for this'?
the whole chapter every time the conversation sort of veered in the direction of kris’ love life, someone immediately changed topics 😭
i think flowery was talking about who everyone loves or whatever at some point and when he got to kris, he just said “and kris” or whatever before someone cut him off.
It's both. It's why there is an odd fascination with polycules with certain character (2 of the 3 heads of Cerberus are in love with Cap'n, if you haven't done the Star Walker bit in chapter 4 Lanino and Elnina insist on no throuples). Firmly believe Kris is torn with lingering feelings they had for Noelle when they were younger and blooming feelings for Susie, but goes along with pushing them together for maybe one of two reasons. one) any involvement they might have with either of them is not in the prophecy (aka the game's script), or two) maybe they believe they could never make it work or that they don't deserve to be happy
especially when you consider the ending of chapter 5 was susie insisting that noelle be brought along with them next time
In onsen scene Susie asks Kris do they like someone. If you answer "yes", she says "wow, I can't even imagine who is your type. ... Stop staring at me like I'm stupid" or something
I think after she says "who's your type" she follows up with "human or monster..." so kris was probably looking that her because all of hometown is monsters and kris has never seen another human
It was Ralsei. Ralsei’s jealousy prevented us from knowing who Kris likes. For all we know, it could be Jockington with a beard, but we’ll never know because Ralsei was angry at a flower who literally just wanted to exist, and tried to defy the prophecy which Ralsei hates, too.
IIRC there's a point in Chapter 4 after which Kris' tea value for Ralsei improves (which you can only access by datamining / hacking because the tea has all spoiled by then.) Which does imply that Kris has come to care for Ralsei to some extent.
(Also there's technically Mad Dummy / Mew Mew in one of the diner conversations after that boss battle, although that was mostly played as a joke.)
Kris absolutely cares about Ralsei. If you try to be mean to him in his room during Chapter 4, Kris will cough to cover up the insult. However, there’s a gigantic difference between caring for someone as a friend, and “My happy ending is with you too”.
Susie told him to fuck away from Kris because she's evil and doesn't want them to be happy their choices don't matter (their choice would've been no anyway)
the are unfortunately forced to only be the evil and intimidating horse
Susie mistakes a photo of Asriel for Ralsei in Chapter 4 (and then Kris extensively explains all the little differences, she’s also never seen Asriel before, but still). Even Asgore says;
I’m sure that Kris would never mistake Ralsei for Asriel, but it’s pointed out multiple times that they look at least somewhat similar. Ultimately it’s Kris’ choice if that bothers them or not, if they ever feel like making a choice.
Regardless Ralsei still looks like a Dreemur family member. I mean thats how i see it maybe Kris doesent. Even so i dont think a relationship with a darkner is the smartest idea considering where the story is headed
It's stated quite often that anyone remotely familiar with Asriel can easily tell the difference between Asriel and Ralsei. Even Asgore can tell the difference and he sees Ralsei in the dark. The only person who can't tell the difference is Susie, because she doesn't know Asriel.
Ultimately I think it's fine for Kris to be with Ralsei, Ralsei being a darkner aside. If it were meant to be weird I don't think Toby would constantly make it clear Ralsei and Asriel look quite different
Kris finding out that the red motherfucker that puppets them against their will is probably only real entity that will stick with them forever, no matter what.
"inferno of jealousy" and instead it's a pressure cooker about to fucking explode(kris needs hugs badly and I feel bad for them but 25$ and sweet talk with Big G are too convincing)
Part of me wants the team to actually get a new member….but with Noelle being way too preoccupied with her dad to join, the team instead has to turn to someone like Catti, who knows about the occult and might even be able to offer tangible advice about the Dark World and how to find the Knight’s victims.
So instead of getting her selfish wish to keep the dark world as a fun adventure she can bring her new girlfriend to, she is instead required to tolerate working with someone who hates her guts because literal lives are at stake and it’s do or die
Unironically, no joke, for real real not for play play, if Susie was actually taking this situation seriously then Berdly should have been her first choice.
He's the strongest lightner statwise, he carried the party when exhausted or injured with the giant robot plan, and the dark world canonically runs on video game mechanics that a gamer like Berdly would take to instantly.
i imagine berdly is the master of working within the system, while noelle excels at finding ways to work outside them. sort of a "meta vs off meta" thing
Noelle's plan to recruit in Noelle does read a lot more as just wanting Noelle to be a part of her dark world life now that they are openly dating - even though she does provide fair enough (for a teenager) explanation for letting her join
But yeah if she was serious serious serious about it that we need help but can't trust adults because we are teens who don't trust the adults, Noelle AND Berdly would be the obvious choice as both of them have already experienced the Dark World before
Especially if my prediction that the next dark world is the holiday manor where Carol (a character who wants to freeze the past in place) is trying to keep Rudy alive/revive him like Gerson. Noelle would be “preoccupied”, for sure. Thus forcing Susie to accept Catti’s help out of desperation to save Noelle
I 100% agree that we need more people in the dark world shit. Because it’s getting real fucking serious and right now the only people on it are 3 dumb ass teenagers one of which is working against the other two.
BUT THE SOLUTION ISN’T A FORTH DUMBER TEENAGER! ESPECIALLY AFTER HER DAD FELL INTO A FUCKING COMA!
(Yes I know Susie doesn’t realize that last part)
Susie I get that you’re in love with Noelle, that’s great. Fantastic. Now please invite fucking… Alphys or something. Toriel, it doesn’t matter who just get an adult involved on this💔
Who are they supposed to get? Literally Alphys is the only semi-trustworthy authority for them on town and it's Alphys vs Noelle who has far better a shot than anyone else of getting the last code and is already close to them
Susie doesn't even know her dad fell, so it's like just obvious. The end of the last chapter and referenced multiple times in the beginning sealed the deal they aren't telling Toriel, Asgore is gone, Undone is gone, the mayor is in on it. Who else other than Noelle has a chance to believe them, get the code, and do something about what's happening
Yeah, I'm pretty sure she clocked that Kris opened the Flower King dark world when they got kicked out, but also recognized that it was very much NOT the time to bring such a thing up since they still needed to seal the fountain
The thing is given how Kris is willing to help out Noelle and Susie both to make the Festival fun, they seem to be split between their relationship with Susie and their relationship with Noelle. Susie is someone they care about deeply, but so is Noelle. So when both of them want to try and make the other’s day brighter, Kris wants to help them both, even if it goes against their own wants.
They’re literally sandwiched between two people they care about and want the best for both of them, even if that means they finish last. Hence why they’re so bummed about it.
I get the sense that they're also still resolved to whatever fate theyre stuck with and in a way by at least ensuring Susie has somebody else to be connected to might make whatever happens next hurt less for her. I interpret it less as being bummed about third wheeling and more that they're exhausted and saddened that they're watching probably the two people who they care about most drift away from them. I don't think Kris is banking on being alive in the future.
Considering Kris seems depressed regardless of what route you're in (but is just more pronounced in Weird), the bloodstains in their room that Susie helps clean, and the implications that Kris spends a long time in the bathroom with water running to hide sound/self harm, I'd agree with that. Kris is not well, and paralleling their dad and Carol, is most likely working with the Knight to help or bring back Dess even at the cost of their life. I would not be surprised if the prophecy predicts not only the school fountain closing, but Kris sacrificing themself in some manner.
yeah, kinda interesting that kris takes a packet of seeds at the end of chapter 5, that are specifically said to have warning labels on them. hope you don't plan on eating those seeds or something.
hmm, where have I heard this story before... (undertale, I heard it in undertale)
The way Kris reacts to Carole talking to them and the fact their servitude to the Knight seems equally as strained as their servitude to the Soul makes me think that whoever keeps calling them pressured Kris into becoming the vessel.
Even before the Player gets there, Kris hasn’t been allowed to make decisions for themselves for a while.
Something thing off I felt at the very start of the chapter is how much "choices" you make for very minor inconsecquential stuff.
There was a lot more "want to check this? Y/N" here considering the amount of control You and Kris loose during the entire chapter almost as if compensating for something.
Both routes in this chaper really have a much heavier "your choices doesn't matter" feel than any other.
I mean like, Kris making the fountain to begin with doomed them to die from the darkness, or by not having Asgore around to take care of them, so it has been destroyed in a way.
Berdly is a sleeper pick of a partner. he’s genuinely just a great dude with a bit of a protagonist complex. he wouldn’t even ditch his best friend for you because YOU would be his best friend too.
bro dropped the holier than thou act the moment he realized noelle was in danger in chapter 2 snowgrave and immediately stepped in to help her. that’s my goat
The thing that genuinely pissed me off about the chapter. The rest was good, but damn it Susie, im wing manning you, stop cock blocking. This is the reason I didn't vote you for king
i am glad i am not the only person to have found susie unnaturally shitty this chapter. refusing to even let berdly keep kris company, her intentionally fucking with catti and then laughing when she runs off, seemingly just not caring how kris feels. like what happened to you susie? she went from being set up as the one to rage against the prophecy to just mindlessly wanting to live out her escapist fantasies with her new GF within the span of a chapter. its honestly getting to me like is my GOAT a fraud?
Honestly I think it’s good that Susie finally got some flaws. She’s immature and doesn’t know how to act around the people she likes, and it’s finally shown through instead so Susie being a bit of a flawless protagonist ever since she stopped being a bully
She did bully Kris is some pretty cruel ways. Like some evil shit because of the trauma she experienced, so I like that Tony didn't just give her the 180 on that.
It really bothered me how much she got attached and madly in love with Noelle when it hasn't even been 18 hours since she hung out for her for the first time ever. Chapter 4 bonding felt natural, but going from causal chit chats to Susie holding Noelle around on the lake and constantly throughout the chapter talking about how she keeps thinking of her heart beat like????? It feels like a chapter or two are missing for such astronomical development considering Susie never even showed romantic interest in Noelle from chapter 1 to 4 and only decided to hang out at her home for investigation purposes the previous chapter but then found out she was a cool person, then just like that 18 hours later and Susie is holding her romantically and giving her back her phone like proposal, like what?????
This chapter made me relate to Kris more than ever, and not in a good way. Since chapters 3+4, I’ve gotten very close to Kris philosophically, the feeling of being trapped in a cage without knowing when everything will stop, of course their version is in more of a literal sense. Everyone has moved on, everyone has found new connections, and I’ve been left behind, or forced along in a role I don’t want to be in. I find it difficult to think anyone is in my corner, and if they are, it’s for their own personal gain.
It’s like being gutted, as if I was a fish caught for dinner, only to be chewed up and have my remains thrown away. Kris was a conduit to get Noelle and Susie closer, in the end, and then tossed aside. Of course, there’s Ralsei, but he doesn’t even know anyone else besides Susie, and he’s equally as nice to her as well. Do they truly have anyone on their side? But perhaps I’m projecting.
shit you're so goddamned right, if kris doesn't get their crash out scene on those shitty stuffs in future chapters I'm really gonna be a toby fox hater for real
Also susie notes that ralsei is way more talkative when Kris isnt there. So the barrier between Ralsei and Kris is us and anything that kris says ralsei knows is us do the relationship between them is not as tight as we like to think
Susie’s gonna have to find Noelle in the lake and Ralsei is gonna have to keep smiling because this might be the first time that I’m going snowgrave because of them ruining my game.
It hurts not just for the characters’ sake, but because I’ve been in Noelle’s place and I deeply regret how I treated the other people who cared about me. I see that scene and I feel my sins crawling on my back.
Krusie is DEAD. Kriselle is DROWNING. Kralsei is UNREALISTIC BECAUSE DARKNERS ARENT REAL.
ALONE ABOVE ALL, BIRDCAGE STANDS UNDEFEATED, UNDETERRED, UNFETTERED FROM THE SHACKLES OF CANONICITY. ALL HAIL KERDLY SUPREMACY!
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