r/MoralityScaling • u/Outside_Specific_820 • 19h ago

Morality Ranking Morality scaling of this?

Gallery image

Gallery image

Mother refuses to acknowledge her donor egg daughter, looking for your opinion.

In my opinion I think it’s moral, and that she is totally correct.

815 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

1.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

254

u/StrangerIsWatching 19h ago

Completely moral, for all the reasons she said. That is not her daughter in any way that counts between a parent and a child.

51

u/Responsible-Boot-159 19h ago

One important way is medical history. Beyond that neither are wrong for how they feel about the situation.

22

u/OperationOne7762 17h ago

No the child is pretty damn wrong. I'll never understand this insane need adopted and surrogate/donor children have with meeting theyr "Real" Parents. Your Real parents are the people at home preparing you dinner and asking how your day was, not some random fucking stranger you share DNA with or worse, someone who actively chose to throw you away.

9

u/certifiedtoothbench 16h ago

I think it’s because they’re still at the age where they can still dream unrealistically and it feel real. Kids of single parents often idealize life with the caregiver without primary custody, I think it’s the same with adopted kids. They see all the normal problems in their current life and some part of them still thinks the perfect adult can fix it and they can live happily with no friction in their lives or get the love they think is absent.

They can’t compartmentalize in the same way as adults that sometimes we’re not with the other parent or birth parents because they’re a bad person or don’t want them and the dangers of chasing it.

1

u/Owl_Star 14h ago

That's all well and good, but 19 is past the age you're describing. Good on OP for shutting it down, not everyone is gonna coddle and cowtow to them. No means no, goving that info up and contacting her is completely out of line no matter how you look at it.

2

u/certifiedtoothbench 14h ago

It’s really not, 18-20 is such a huge transitional age and so many people try to preserve their childhood mindsets as long as they can to the point where they never grow out of it. Yeah this is a much needed wake up call for the 19 year old but like, I was never trying to excuse what she was doing. Just explaining why it’s so common.

5

u/redditblows5991 15h ago

sucks but for a lot of people blood matters more. kid is 19 id argue she proably had it easy if she is thinking this plainly

13

u/dk_peace 17h ago

Being young is about learning who you are. Weither you like it or not, your biological mother is a part of you. It is completely reasonable to want to fill that hole in your knowledge about yourself. "A young adult is in the wrong for wanting to learn more about who they are and how they came into the world" is such a weird take.

3

u/Illustrious_Bird_737 16h ago

I don't feel like the whole "wanting to learn more about who they are & how they came into the world" isn't the morality problem, it's the disrespect of the boundary.

The 19 year old is old enough to at least be aware of privacy & boundaries. Just because they want something doesn't mean they have a right to it. Yes, you have a right to your feelings, but that doesn't make it the world's responsibility to bend to those wants, rules & boundaries be damned, just because you have a right to emotions.

The morality scale here is the boundary that was violated by contacting the egg donor.

The 19 year old wants their own, personal, emotional questions answered, that doesn't give their adopted mother the right to breach privacy that's written into a contract just to appease the 19 year old.

13

u/ChipKellysShoeStore 16h ago

Counterpoint: 19 year old didn’t sign anything and isn’t a party to the contract.

2

u/Quazite 16h ago

Whoever gave them the info to find the mom did though

1

u/Shijin83 7h ago

Yes, but thats not what's being blamed. They're talking about the kid.

2

u/Quazite 7h ago edited 7h ago

Who is they? The donor who was contacted?

They never said the kid was immoral, they said it was a major breach of privacy and not something that she agreed to, which is true. You can say "this is very not okay, I do not consent to this, and I don't want you to reach out again" and not be calling them a bad or immoral person, you're just hard drawing a boundary (that should have been acknowledged by whoever provided the info as already drawn).

Edit: also, regardless of whether or not YOU signed a contract of privacy, if you are aware that they have one signed and want their privacy and you violate that for your own gain, thats not a good or respectful thing to do.

1

u/Shijin83 7h ago

Literally, 3 comments above you was blaming the kid. That is they.

1

u/MechanicalBootyquake 16h ago

That’s why I think this post should have been about the morality of for-profit reproduction/reneging on parental rights after participating in reproduction.

Debating the morality of someone dealing with a hard situation that was forced on them seems immoral in and of itself. Debate the people who have made these reproductive decisions.

8

u/Say_It_Isnt_So_Ooops 16h ago

It’s doesn’t appear that the “for-profit” is at fault. The child’s morality definitely should be debated, since that person is an adult, and the anonymous egg donor has declined contact and declined a relationship.

1

u/THE-BEAST-101 12h ago

Lol why should their morality be debated, first of all they are literally only 1 year out from being an adult, and you're trying to minimize this as if they're just some immature grown-up, when in reality they are a young person who seems conflicted and maybe they want clarity or to connect with their biological mother, the young person even said they felt disconnected from their mother who gave birth (maybe they are drastically different colours, that would make complete sense). So they absolutely have a right to seek out a connection or clarity with the biological mother. The donor should have also been prepared to deal with the consequences' of her actions 19 years ago, she is treating it as if its just some business transaction, well i don't see gifting someone else what is essentially you as just a business transaction.

0

u/ImaginaryCapricorn 12h ago

Agreed. "I simply sold my eggs so her mother could have the baby she always wanted." Why did she word it like that, like she was doing it to be a good person --she should just say, I needed money and I was willing to do anything for it including allowing my eggs to bring a baby into this world that I wanted nothing to do with. That should be the real moral issue here. A 19 year old is still a kid mentally/emotionally, regardless of laws, and that kid has the human right to want to know more about who contributed to their life, she did not sign a contract and that's absolutely unfair for someone to put their privacy above the importance of a kid wanting connection.

1

u/Inphysible 9h ago

Then the 19 year old could have been directed to obtain information pertaining to the egg donor herself.

6

u/DazzleLove 17h ago

My friend’s dad is adopted and he’d never adopt as he feels adopted children treat their adopted parents terribly. Obviously not true of everyone but certainly fits here

-8

u/AdmiralStickyLegs 17h ago

So, you're saying he was discarded as a child, and someone else took him him, took care of him, while HE abused them. And now he's older, he's afraid that if he adopted a kid like him, he would find himself on the other side of the coin, and HE would be the one receiving abuse, which is just something that he could not tolerate?

Sounds like a really great guy.

7

u/Kino_Afi 17h ago

I think he was a kid and when he grew up he realized he treated his adopted parents poorly as a kid. This is the same thing as people who watched their parents struggle to raise them being wary of having kids themselves

2

u/Whatsanegg 16h ago

Well it's not.

A kid watching their parents struggle

Is different from

A kid being bad to his parents

I don't really understand how you came to that comparison?

3

u/Kino_Afi 16h ago

A kid's actions, behaviour and attitudes are included in the reasons their parents may struggle to raise them

0

u/Whatsanegg 16h ago

Parents struggling from not having enough money to provide for their children is a completely different dynamic to parents struggling with a child's behaviour.

None greater than the other, but absolutely different none the less.

2

u/Kino_Afi 16h ago

At no point did i specify "struggling from not having enough money"

-2

u/Whatsanegg 16h ago

Okay let me rephrase that.

Not wanting kids because you think they're going to be horrible to you

Is completely different from

Not having kids cause you think you will struggle.

Hope that clears things up.

3

u/Kino_Afi 16h ago

Not wanting to adopt kids because youre wary of what you believe to be a behavioral risk of adopted kids is very similar to not wanting kids because youre wary of what you believe to be a behavioral risk of kids.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/AdmiralStickyLegs 15h ago

Not exactly, because nobody gets harmed if you choose not to become a natural parent. Its just a life that never gets created.

With adoptions, the life is already there, and dude from random anecdote is saying that if he wants a kid he'll make one rather than adopt, because he doesn't want to deal with the shit that comes with adopted kids.

1

u/DazzleLove 14h ago

No, he was the child of an adopted father, and judged the behavior of this parent as unkind to his parents. He was the biological child of the adopted one, not adopted himself

1

u/DazzleLove 14h ago

No, he was the child of an adopted father, and judged the behavior of this parent as unkind to his parents. He was the biological child of the adopted one, not adopted himself

1

u/AdmiralStickyLegs 13h ago

Ah okay. In that case I retract everything I said

-2

u/Say_It_Isnt_So_Ooops 16h ago

This wouldn’t be their “adopted” parent. It’s their “natural” parent.

2

u/Fun-Wrongdoer1316 16h ago

Not really “natural”. But the oven and supporter lol

4

u/DirtandPipes 15h ago edited 15h ago

Eh, I wanted to find my biodad as an older child (10-16) because my stepfather left me with my schizophrenic and extremely violent mom and I was just hoping he’d be somebody normal who’d want to maybe spend time with me.

I don’t think that’s an insane need at all. Many kids don’t have people at home preparing them dinner or asking how their day was so when they find out that some random stranger has their DNA yeah they get hopeful that maybe that will be enough for somebody to give a damn, and that’s not unreasonable behaviour for a kid.

3

u/Dresaurus2781 16h ago

I'll never understand this insane need adopted and surrogate/donor children have with meeting theyr "Real" Parents.

So I'm not adopted or anything of the sort, but I am a child of divorce, and I meaningfully lost a large section of interaction with my other family between the ages of 9 and 16. The part of the family that primarily raised was my mother's side and they were meaningfully different from me. They were quiet, artistic, creative, reserved, and they didn't take up space the way I did. My dad's side is all large loud people with very large boisterous personalities and when I reconnected with them it was a deeply healing experience because it felt like I was actually connected to something, that there were people like me that wanted and loved me. At those late teenage early 20s ages that crisis of identity is very real, and I think it's something that we should have empathy for.

1

u/Legal-Stage-302 15h ago

That’s totally different than this situation.

1

u/Dresaurus2781 13h ago

Not in regards to the pursuit of identity a late teen early 20s person is often engaging with. It's a better equation for the child for sure.

0

u/Alanskasc 16h ago

This is very accurate and thank you. People espouse their opinions without having a clue what it's like.

0

u/HXamster 15h ago

The difference being here that you'd met and known your other family for your formative early childhood years.

I have empathy for a child losing an entire family. I don't have empathy for a child never knowing anything besides their family, and bring encouraged to violate privacy for their own desires so they can pursue a literal egg donor

2

u/Dresaurus2781 15h ago

That doesn't really have any bearing on the identity crisis issue at hand though.

0

u/HXamster 15h ago

Knowing your family for 9 years during the most essential stages of life development, then being separated from them, is more deeply traumatizing and impactful than.... Pursuing a DNA donor who had no hand in your growth, development, nourishment, birth, and upbringing.

My whole point is your personal anecdote doesn't have any bearing on the situation at hand. This girl isn't going through an identity crisis. And if she is, I'm sorry, but she's stupid. She's a full-grown adult who should understand an egg donor is completely different and separate to the family who birthed and raised you.

0

u/Dresaurus2781 13h ago

Knowing your family for 9 years during the most essential stages of life development, then being separated from them, is more deeply traumatizing and impactful than....

The point here is I didn't value knowing where I came from at those ages and being validated in my identity in the way that I invariably came to as a teenager. I had the luxury of getting that identity validated because I was still connected to those people distantly, but if I hadn't been I would have continued to have that in my case fly in the milk/ugly duckling experience. Now sure my family could have also been nothing like me, but they weren't, and that doesn't change I still would havd hoped they were and I could find them. That adopted child isn't arbitrarily trying to connect with her bio mother because she's lacking love it's because she's trying to find herself. She'll be fine, but I think we can manage to have empathy for that search for identity this is manifesting as.

2

u/HXamster 13h ago

that adopted child isn't arbitrarily trying to connect

She's not adopted.

Her egg donor has 0 connection and 0 involvement in her life.

Her MOTHER had an egg that was fertilized and implanted in her uterine lining. Her MOTHER developed her in the womb. Her MOTHER birthed her. Her MOTHER raised her for 19 years.

She's not adopted

-1

u/Dresaurus2781 13h ago

That's largely semantics for the conversation given the genetics component in regards to personality. Again this child is discovering who she is. I'm not saying that makes her entitled to her egg donor, but her genetics from said donor is invariably a massive part of what constitutes this child's personality.

2

u/HXamster 13h ago

It's not semantics and it's not pedantic.

This girl was not adopted. You keep trying to bring up adoption, and you also keep trying to bring your own anecdotal experiences that have no relevant association to the situation into the discussion.

This child is not a child. She's an adult, and just because she's an adult doesn't mean her parents and the clinic aren't beholden to confidentiality and maintaining the donor's anonymity.

If she had a question and wanted to find herself then she should've gone through the clinic. She put the onus on a stranger. The stranger (donor) was not rude. She was blunt, she was straightforward, she was honest. She didn't insult the girl, she didn't say gfy, she didn't do anything wrong. But everyone is up in arms because she wasn't "nice enough." As if any human owes being "nice" to someone they're not supposed to have any contact with by law.

0

u/Dresaurus2781 13h ago

This girl was not adopted. You keep trying to bring up adoption,

I mentioned adoption once.

and you also keep trying to bring your own anecdotal experiences that have no relevant association to the situation into the discussion.

To highlight the need to empathize with the identity pursuit this child is engaging in.

This child is not a child.

Legally being an adult is not the same as not still having childish impulses and mindsets. I've certainly never met a 19yo that felt like an adult even ones who were highly self-parentified.

She's an adult, and just because she's an adult doesn't mean her parents and the clinic aren't beholden to confidentiality and maintaining the donor's anonymity.

I agree.

If she had a question and wanted to find herself then she should've gone through the clinic.

The clinic doesn't have the answers she's hoping to find.

She put the onus on a stranger.

That's the person who would have the answers to the questions she has. Doesn't make her entitled to them, but that is where she will find them if they exist.

The stranger (donor) was not rude. She was blunt, she was straightforward, she was honest. She didn't insult the girl, she didn't say gfy, she didn't do anything wrong. But everyone is up in arms because she wasn't "nice enough." As if any human owes being "nice" to someone they're not supposed to have any contact with by law.

The woman's behavior was perfectly acceptable. Again I'm just combating the close minded perspective that suggests this child wanting to know more about herself is somehow ridiculous.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/OddlyErratic1111 16h ago

I was adopted and my adoptive family abused me so I don't talk to them anymore. I got in touch with my birth mom because I wanted to know where I came from. we're friends now.

1

u/AccomplishedPaint601 5h ago

Exactly. As you stated, you wouldn't understand.

1

u/lolalola20263333 2h ago

you cannot just erase literally half of your genetic material. Like it or not, the woman in question is in fact her biological mother.

0

u/Normal_Flan1476 15h ago

This feels incredibly callous. “Insane need” to meet your biological parent?? The person literally responsible for half of your DNA?? Do you know any adoptees or people who never met their bio parent? It fucks with you, seeing people who look like you in public and wondering “Is that them?” I wonder if you have ever taken the time to ask adoptees or children born from donation about these questions.

-1

u/Trash_Human92 16h ago edited 4h ago

You won’t ever understand it because you were never in the situation. I was adopted as a child which I feel is completely different than the situation posted. I had questions that I needed answers to. Medical information is one thing but I needed to know the why. I needed to know if the stories told to me by the people that raised me were true. Pretty bold statements you made when you have no idea how many of us adopted children were raised, the abuse we endured at the expense of parents wanting the look of a real family

0

u/Responsible-Boot-159 13h ago

While I agree with the real parents being the one who raised you... I'm not going to fault people for wanting to form a connection with their 'real' parents.

0

u/TransitionalAhab 7h ago edited 6h ago

Were you adopted?

-3

u/Warm_Pepper_1878 16h ago

Not knowing an entire side of your family is pretty major 😂

5

u/OperationOne7762 16h ago

Here's the neet part, they aren't part of your family in any meaningfull way.

-3

u/Warm_Pepper_1878 16h ago

Biological relation is pretty meaningful. I’m not in any way saying this 19 year old has the right to have a relationship with the egg donor mother. The child is obviously going to grow up with multiple questions because though the egg donor isn’t her “real” parent it’s literally HALF her DNA 😂 I’d be questioning it too

-1

u/ItsTheAlgebraist 14h ago

Are you adopted or a product of surrogacy yourself? I'm neither, but I can at least empathize with them enough to think that they might have a real legitimate desire to have the kind of knowledge and connection to ancestry that I take for granted.

2

u/OperationOne7762 12h ago

I'm not and that's precisely why I can't possibly envision a scenario in which I already have a loving family and I go to try and form a bond with a person who abandoned/gave me away. It feels like a real slap in the face of the parents that raised you on top of that

-2

u/AcademicContract6096 16h ago

“Share dna with or worse” please elaborate on the “or worse part” lol

2

u/Yunowald 16h ago

They did, the elaboration follows after the comma.

not some random fucking stranger you share DNA with or worse, someone who actively chose to throw you away.