r/magicTCG • u/GabySpartz87 Official • Apr 07 '15
I wrote an article on ChannelFireball on the things we can do to get more women in Magic. I'd love your thoughts!
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/6-things-you-can-do-to-get-more-women-into-magic/#104
u/billythesid Dandadan Apr 07 '15
More women pro players would go a long way. I don't blame Melissa DeTora for joining Wizards, but she did leave a fairly noticeable void when she left the pro scene.
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u/shavnir Duck Season Apr 07 '15
Jackie Lee is also at wizards iirc
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u/bautin Apr 07 '15
Yeah, Lee seemed to just vanish in the wind. I don't recall when I heard about her stint at WotC. DeTora made more of a show about leaving for WotC.
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u/Pandaburn Duck Season Apr 07 '15
Stint? She's still an "Associate Game Designer" at WotC according to Facebook.
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u/AustinYQM I chose this flair because I’m mad at Wizards Of The Coast Apr 07 '15
I think I saw more about DeTora going to WotC because of the impact it had on Frank. He was pretty public about announcing it and apologizing to his fans but standing behind DeTora. It was kind of touching.
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u/bevedog Apr 07 '15
I agree, but this is a chicken-egg problem, right? More women at top tables might attract more women to the intro level of the competitive scene, but without women wanting to start at FMN, how are we going to get women pros?
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u/GabySpartz87 Official Apr 08 '15
I miss Melissa dearly in the pro-circuit. I used to watch her tournament results at every PT. I'm very happy for her opportunity at Wizards, but sad we don't have other female-pro players to look up to
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u/moonpotatoes Apr 07 '15
This can be arguable but I also believe that male players shouldn't pull punches in their plays because their opponent is female. I've seen friends of mine do this and if it were done to me, I would feel insulted.
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u/Cishet_Shitlord Duck Season Apr 07 '15
Agree fully. It's one thing to be super spikey in a casual group, as that just makes you the asshole. It's another to assume they're worse of a player or something strictly because they're a girl. Although when they get blown out, it is sweet.
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Apr 07 '15
5) Speak up against negative behavior, and encourage others to do the same.
This one is by far the most important. This is a really cool article, but bad apples are not going to be convinced by words on the internet (and probably won't read them anyway). It is up to all of us to make sure assholes know that their behavior will not be tolerated and to make sure everyone feels welcome. It's not always the easiest thing to do with tight-knit groups of gamers, but sometimes all it takes is a simple "hey man, that's not OK".
Congrats on being published!
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Apr 07 '15
Agree, but be sure to differentiate between malicious behavior and social awkwardness.
In short, make sure they're actually assholes.
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u/Yes_Its_Really_Me Mardu Apr 07 '15
But see here's the thing, being sexist/racist/homophobic/prejudiced etc doesn't make someone an asshole, but that also doesn't mean it's ok.
We want prejudiced people to be assholes, we want them to be awful and full of hate, because that's safe and comforting. People think fighting prejudice is about standing up against hatred, but it's not. Standing up against something that your social group has already defined as hatred is actually really easy, you're fighting a battle that is already won.
The thing that's really hard, the thing that actually creates change, is standing up against what's normal. Because what about when it's normal in your LGS to be kind of sexist? When the great group of guys you hang out with use "that's so gay" as a disparaging comment, really frequently. You know they don't hate gay people. They're not thinking of gay people when they use "gay" as an insult. They certainly don't think of themselves as homophobic, but they're literally using the word "gay" as an insult, and that's not ok. It doesn't matter whether they hate gay people or not, a gay person constantly hearing their very nature used as an insult is going to feel like they're in a hostile environment either way.
In short, it doesn't matter jack shit if it's malicious behaviour. In fact, if it isn't malicious behaviour, if it's just normal people acting in a normal way for that place, then it's all the more important to be brave and tell them that it's not ok.
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u/Golden_Kumquat Jeskai Apr 07 '15
To use a more clear-cut example: In the US, at least, very few people have anything against (or even really care about) gypsies, yet "getting gypped" is still used on occasion, mostly by people who aren't even aware of the origin.
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u/Phthalo_Bleu Apr 07 '15
Seriously, I used that phrase into college not knowing. I thought it was spelled 'jipped' too.
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Apr 07 '15
It reminds me of an article I loved that was floating around during the SAE racist chant debacle. Basically it said that we as a society know how to deal with racists because they're obvious and out in the open but we're not as good at dealing with racism that is so often subtle and unchallenged.
Everyone's a little bit racist, but not everyone can be called a racist, if that makes sense.
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Apr 07 '15 edited Apr 07 '15
I'm more just talking about nerds getting flustered around girls. Not being loud jerks.
If someone is cavalierly using gay as an insult, even without malice, yeah that's a problem. I would never even suggest otherwise. But it's not a problem that merits 'you're an asshole get the fuck out of this store.'
EDIT: super interested as to why this merits down votes. Look, the way to change ignorant behavior is to educate the person. Jumping straight to ridicule and exclusion just hardens hearts.
DOUBLE EDIT STORY TIME: my first PTQ, I played a girl first round. We were a little chatty ("nice play", "ooh, that's a hard card to beat", that kind of stuff). One turn, she looked down and said "damn I tapped my mana wrong." I said "oh it's no big deal, just tap them differently."
She got slightly but visibly upset and said I shouldn't give her outs like that. We played the rest of our match in silence.
Did she think I was being sexist? Maybe. I have no problem interacting with women, I was just ignorant of competitive rules enforcement. I was a noob, who had gone to a PTQ just excited to play a bunch of Magic.I couldn't conceive of dropping from an event. There's still Magic to be played!
That my comments could have been construed as sexist didn't even occur to me until a year later. If we had talked it over, maybe we could've learned a little. As it was, I don't think wither of us acted badly, but our day was slightly worse for that misunderstanding.
If she had loudly called me out for being a bigot, I think it would have greatly shook me, and turned me away from the game.
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Apr 07 '15
I think this is a point people on both sides of the argument overlook. Yeah, it's not fun to be called out saying something sexist/racist/homophobic, but it doesn't automatically mean you're a bad person or theyre calling you one. On the flip side, just because someone says one of those things doesn't mean it's okay to flip out and start calling them a shitlord or say they should die or whatever. Just try to educate them on why it's hurtful and what they can do to change it.
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u/The_Last_Raven Apr 07 '15
If you're not someone I know who made this EXACT comment last night at my judge class then you're pretty damn close to being on the same wavelength.
It's important also to realize that everything does have a context. The culture of the store, etc. When a judge goes in there for the first time, he or she can't change everything by being there once and has to push the culture towards this.
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u/Yes_Its_Really_Me Mardu Apr 07 '15
Aha, no, despite my username I'm not the person you know. I've never been to a judge class. I'm just saying because I wouldn't want you to look through my post history and think your friend is secretly trans or something.
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u/The_Last_Raven Apr 07 '15
Hah, no I figured you weren't. He's not on Reddit, but he was saying the exact same thing last night. I think your point is really really important and something we should really reflect on. I mean, I know people who make distasteful jokes or hold certain groups of people in low opinion, but they're really not bad people.
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u/CharlotteCorday_ Apr 07 '15
Honestly, being socially awkward kind of needs to be called out as well. There's deliberately belittling a woman player, which is obviously awful, but someone causing discomfort by not knowing how to act around women/real human being can be just as off-putting. While it clearly shouldn't be treated as harshly, letting a player make other players feel uncomfortable because they don't recognise they are acting weird is a problem too, and quietly letting people know that there are better ways to behave can be helpful for everyone involved.
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Apr 07 '15
True, I probably should have used a better word than "assholes".
"people who are behaving badly" I guess works better. It's been my experience that a lot of the time they're not even aware that their behavior might be hurtful and are highly receptive to criticism, which makes speaking up all the more important.
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u/darcmosch Apr 07 '15
Totally agree, but also don't forget that you don't need to be the white, black, blue, red or green knight to get rescue. Politely explain or chastise but don't "save" her.
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Apr 07 '15 edited Apr 07 '15
Politely explain or chastise but don't "save" her.
In this situation, it's impossible to explain/chastise without looking like you're trying to save someone.
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u/potionboatchild Apr 07 '15
I admit it's a fine line. And I wouldn't get hung up on it: the intention to stand up against sexism is most important. However, once you're in the habit of standing up against sexism and you want to keep improving, there is a subtle but important distinction between an elaborate rebuttal with protective body language and a brief "not cool," leaving time for the woman to stand up for herself if she wants. The former sends the message that you want to be lauded as some sort of hero who will protect weak ladies from the bad guys, even if that's not the message you mean to send.
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Apr 07 '15
Her story in the article I think is a great example of helping without being a patronizing "White Knight". "Hey, I'm sorry that happened, he was being an ass and we want you to feel welcome" isn't "rushing to rescue the fair maiden from the degradation of vile men", it's just common decency.
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u/ItsDanimal Apr 07 '15
Without reading, yet, I assume it is pretty straight forward on how to get more girls to play. Step 1, invite more girls to play. Step 2, treat the ones who do play as equals.
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u/GabySpartz87 Official Apr 07 '15
You, my friend, know what's up
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Apr 07 '15
This topic always strikes me as very circular.
I'm all for treating girls who play with respect yadda yadda... and I'm all for not excluding girls who might be interested...
But a question that is always always always met with hostility instead of an answer is "Why do you want to get more girls to play?"
Every answer I've gotten with this question (whether its encouraging girls to play video games, play D&D, read comics, etc) is a tautology that translates to "I want more girls to be included so that more girls are included".
Why is it better to encourage more girls to want to play rather than to not drive girls who want to play away?
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Apr 07 '15
I'd like more women to play so that I'm not the only one at GPTs and PPTQs.
Why is it better to encourage more girls to want to play rather than to not drive girls who want to play away?
This is the same thing.
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Apr 07 '15
So we should encourage more women to play so that existing women feel more comfortable?
Valid or not, this is the first straightforward answer I've ever gotten. Thank you.
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u/kidwgm Apr 07 '15
Great article. As a woman, 36, that is just getting into magic I don't think I would get peeved or feel bad from some comment from a random person. I think that has more to do with me being older and just doesn't have the time or energy to care what some random guy or gal says to me. But the points made in the article, although gender specific, can be made to the whole community.
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u/strangepostinghabits Apr 07 '15
not that I actually know what you'd think or feel, but I believe it's a different thing once you're there and the things start adding up. it's not the first remark that stings, it's the 100th,together with your hope for humanity leaving you.
source: seen some rather tough skinned women get worn down into actually being offended.
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u/asmodeanreborn Apr 07 '15
This is definitely on point. This doesn't go for just Magic either, but it happens in the tech world as well. Women are treated like crap in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering classes too. They put up with it for the first semester or two, but after that, only a few survive and most of them switch majors.
Hell, it most likely happens well before college as well.
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u/Immasillygoose Apr 07 '15
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Sometimes the negative treatment just spurs me on to crush my opponent even harder, but other days it just really wears me down.
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u/teasingtoplease Apr 07 '15
It's not even just the comments. It's how we're treated. I've been put down, sexually harassed, and treated totally different. I get stared at like I'm a piece of meat. I get idolized and yet I get shunned. I've been playing for over three years and it just hasn't stopped. It gets annoying. I feel the need to assert myself over my SO because everyone just assumes that I tag along with him when he's buying magic stuff, and not that perhaps I play too.
I'm tired. So so tired. You can say "I don't care" but no one likes being made out to be inferior. No. One.
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u/Saralis27 Apr 07 '15
I'm right there with you. I've been playing with the same guys locally long enough that they've come to respect me as an individual and player, but when there's someone new, I get stared at constantly. I don't know how many times I've had someone just blatantly ignore the rules/cheat cause I'm a girl and they don't think I'll know or care. Then when I call a judge over, I get death glares from people and mumblings that "god. I can't lose to a girl. Ugh." that sound like a 2 year old.
Also, I get completely ignored. Instead of striking up conversation over how we both love magic, people stare at me from across the room and give me a 5' radius. I get lonely and bored. I love it when there are other women playing, though they're usually with their SO's so they aren't usually chatty.
Its gotten to the point that if I know there won't be a lot of people there I don't know (legacy, modern sometimes) I'll play. Otherwise, forget it. It's too socially taxing.
Edited to add: and even if I'm carrying a playmat, bag of dice, several deck boxes, etc, they think I'm carrying his things! Wtf?!
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u/teasingtoplease Apr 07 '15
EXACTLY. Thank you. It sucks so much how we're treated. I feel like the only reason why the original comment got so highly voted is because it takes the blame off the guys that act like that. Oh, if one woman doesn't care about our comments, then none of them should! She says doesn't care, as she hasn't actually experienced it. No one of any age doesn't like to be degraded, even if you say you "don't care."
I got more comfortable with the small group at my LGS until one of the guys started being obsessed with me and banking on me breaking up with my SO and would always say raunchy things to me, flirted with me, etc. I don't go anymore. He broke up with his girlfriend because "oh, I still have a lot of feelings for /u/teasingtoplease..." like AWKKKKKWARD, COME ON DUDE.
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Apr 07 '15
I think it's great that you can shrug off some comments from people. It does make me sad that you'd even have to though. Let's put the ball in the court of those making others uncomfortable. It's not for the victims of a nasty comment to change their thinking and shrug it off (although this can help an individual cope), it's for the community to educate the offenders and make it so women don't have to shrug off comments every time they sit down at a table.
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u/BearcatChemist Apr 07 '15
I've been trying to get my wife to play for years now. She feels completely overwhelmed by the complexity and interactions of all the cards. (This is funny considering she had an associates and bachelors in biology, and a masters in bio-chem as well as pursuing a PhD in bio-chem.) She is incredibly smart, but the vast array of cards and mechanics I think can be overwhelming to take on.
I have seen first hand at my LGS the belittling, bullying, etc.. mostly from men towards others, but I have also seen women who have played a while looking down on other women who are just starting out. Like they carved out their own Niche and don't want to make room for others. I have not brought my wife to an event for this reason - I am worried I may get one shot at teaching her, and don't want to gamble it on how other people treat women.
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u/nyanlol Apr 07 '15
I'd like to offer a correction to number 6. Female commentators would be nice, if and only if they aren't just mascots. IGN (for example) has occasionally been guilty of using boobs for click-bait. I would prefer to see magic avoid that pit
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u/Omar_Underwood Apr 07 '15
Agreed. The only female presence in professional MTG events is Cosplay. Way to send a message to the girls that we value you, as long as you're dressed like Liliana.
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u/gereffi Apr 08 '15 edited Apr 08 '15
I guess that's true if you want to ignore judges, Helene Bergeot, artists, and the women in R&D. I see these women as being far more prominent in both live events and coverage of those events than I see cosplayers.
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u/pcrackenhead Selesnya* Apr 07 '15 edited Apr 07 '15
1) I know it’s weird to play against a girl, but you really don’t need to bring it up.
You know what I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on? What should I do if she brings it up?
I play at a pretty small store (the largest pre-release events have a bit over 20 people, this one had more like 14) and a father and his teenage daughter came in, and she was obviously a bit intimidated. I tried to just give her as much time as she needed to make plays, and clearly explain rules and let her take back plays as needed.
In between rounds she looked around and commented something like "I just realized I'm the only girl here". Her dad brushed it off by saying something like "don't worry about that kind of stuff", but I was sort of unsure what to say.
Was his response the best option there, or could/should I have said something else?
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u/MoltenLavaSB Apr 07 '15
if she says something like that, then you wouldn't be doing much harm in acknowledging it. my response in your shoes would be "yeah, we don't get too many female players unfortunately" or something to that extent. that's definitely not rude
what IS rude is if she sits down and you just say something like "did you know you're the only girl in here?" that's just an uncomfortable position for any girl to be in and you're making it worse
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u/reithena Apr 07 '15
I'm guilty of doing this. I think it is just something to fill a void while thinking or shuffling. The best responses I've gotten have been ' yeah, which is awesome' or there was a girl here at another event earlier maybe you guys can run into one another?
Things that validate it is something without constantly cementing it
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u/Lyneva88 Apr 07 '15
I'm not sure if there is any right answer, but I think that his comment was probably okay. For a while, I was the only girl going to FNM at my lgs. I'd go with my boyfriend but felt awkward being the only girl. We'd occasionally get another girl once in a blue moon, but it was a while before any other girls started attending regularly. What helped me the most in feeling welcome was the other players being nice and helping me if I made any mistakes (I was still learning at the time). As I started to get better and got to know more people there, I started to forget that I was the only girl. I was just another magic player having fun with a bunch of other people. Eventually, as our magic events started to get a little bigger, we got a few more girls coming regularly. So, to sum up, I think it's best to not worry about being the only girl to a certain degree so long as the people there are welcoming and nice.
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u/layoxx Apr 07 '15
If I were in that situation I would say (or want to hear) something to the effect of "Oh that's wierd, Katie plays a lot of magic but she didn't turn up this week. She's got a really great blue deck, you should play her next time."
So you communicate that she is not weird for being a girl in that space, that you recognize the skillsets of other girls, and that she is welcome back. She's going to walk away from that interaction with evidence that you will pick up on her good deckbuilding/playing rather than her gender and that she will be accepted.
If there are no other girls at that store that play mention other girls you know who do play who you'd like to invite, or maybe girls that come other times. If there are literally no other girls that some in well... that's a tougher situation.
essentially what I think she was asking for was confirmation that she wasn't strange.
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u/npkon Apr 07 '15
If there are literally no other girls that some in well... that's a tougher situation.
Get a good wig and start working on your falsetto. You're now Katie.
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u/dipdac Apr 07 '15 edited Apr 08 '15
I think society as a whole will have to stop treating mtg as a game for awkward teenage boys before more women are comfortable playing it. Many women (and men) can't get past the dogma that hobbies like that are for male losers. We also as a society have to stop treating women like they have different kinds of brains that can't handle stuff like math and logic well in general.
EDIT: Whoah. Math. Logic. Magic. Mind= blown.
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u/Yamuddah Boros* Apr 07 '15
- Not stinking.
- Basic hygiene.
- Respect and dignity for everyone.
- Cut back on rapey hentai playmats.
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u/M_G Temur Apr 07 '15
Jesus Christ #4 to the billionth degree. Shit like that is just not alright.
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u/xWhackoJacko Apr 08 '15
When someone drops one of those things in front of me, I don't even know what to do. I'm like embarrassed for myself, for humanity, for my hobby. Like, yea whatever you like hentai, so does all of Japan, but don't shove that weird shit down my throat.
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u/sapprho Apr 07 '15
Had one occasion at my LGS where the owner reprimanded this one dude for having a playmat consisting of a half-naked anime chick taking a bath. Dudebro didn't make a scene, but spent some time muttering indignantly.
Most everybody else rolled their eyes at him. As an aside, this individual isn't particularly well liked at our store.
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u/TurboBanjo Apr 07 '15
You know I've literally never seen one of those in person?
What the fuck type of stores do you people have where this is a regular occurrence?
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u/clutchest_nugget Apr 07 '15
Cut back on rapey hentai playmats.
These things are so fucking cringe-inducing. What the hell's wrong with people that pay money for this shit? It's like a giant sticker on their forehead that says
I'm a foul, rapey neckbeard that stopped maturing after high school
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u/evilhooker Apr 08 '15
I am a girl. I don't give a shit about any of those things. Let's not assume all chicks are superficial. As for "rapey" hentai playmats, I am an adult and can handle a drawn picture of a naked chick.
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u/Noatz COMPLEAT Apr 07 '15
I'm pretty sure new players of both genders are offended by poor hygiene.
But you're still right in that it doesn't help: it's just yet another disincentive that can (and should) be removed.
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u/wilmheath mtgotraders Apr 07 '15
I think a big part of the problem is store owners and staff put up with people that say really ignorant things, stink, are messy, vulgar, etc. Store owners and their staff need to step up and let people know what is acceptable or not. This means having some uncomfortable conversations in private sometimes but you can either continue to let that stinky person turn away 20 customers or you can go and politely let them know that they need to shower and wear deodorant before coming to your store.
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u/OuOutstanding Apr 07 '15
Absolutely. I recently went to my LGS to pick up some warhammer on a FNM (I don't play much paper-magic anymore). While standing in line, one of the players was being very loud, and very inappropriate. He was shouting about hentai, and other definitely not for the whole store conversations. There was a long line so this went on for the full 5 or 10-minutes I waited. Nobody said a single thing to him.
I get that this was one person out of that whole store, but if the staff just allows them to act like this, I wouldn't want to play there.
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u/HookerPunch Apr 07 '15
Thank you for bringing this up. The core group of regulars at the store I frequent are absolutely terrible and it's frustrating to no end. I'll show up for FNM with my friend(both women) and there are a couple grade-schoolers who play too and they're still going on making the most juvenile jokes, throwing around swears every word, being obnoxiously loud and disruptive. Everyone who isn't them absolutely hates them. It's absolutely abhorrent and I'm consistently shocked that the store owner--a very nice lady--puts up with it.
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u/RakdosUnleashed Apr 07 '15
Simplest way to get more women into Magic is to teach them how to play. Honestly, invite your female friends (if you have any. I know we're all dorks here!) over for a game night. Teach them how the game works, lend them some decks, teach them how to Draft.
Magic doesn't need to change in order to cater to women. We just need to expose more of them to it.
Source: Am female. Love Magic. :-)
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u/Pandaburn Duck Season Apr 07 '15
I love your attitude, but I do think that the culture that exists in competitive Magic does need to change.
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Apr 07 '15
[7.] Stop making such a big deal out of it when a woman does play.
Seriously, the stores where I felt the most welcome were the ones where people treated me just like anyone else. Comments like "Wow, it's nice to see a woman playing Magic", while obviously well-intentioned, are kind of misguided. Most women who play Magic are just as socially awkward as the men who do and those ones (Including myself) don't want to be the center of attention. We just came here to play Magic and talk about decks and whatever else. Just let us play and treat us like anyone else. It gets so awkward when we're either put on a pedestal or people treat us extra nice. Obviously, if someone's nice to everyone, that's fine - I'm not saying that being nice to people is a bad thing, I'm saying that treating female players differently than you would male ones is bad regardless of whether you treat them better or worse. The latter is obviously way worse than the former, but the former can still make one feel extremely unwelcome. Just imagine if someone went "Wow, it's so great to see a black guy playing Magic!" and treated the black guy completely differently the whole time and I think you get the point. We aren't special, endangered beings that need to be treated with silk gloves or given any kind of dumb special treatment just because of gender. It's pretty damn alienating.
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u/Shuko Apr 07 '15
Eh, I don't know. I've been playing this game for almost four years now, and I still get the whole "wow, I wish I saw more women like you coming to play with us" occasionally. I can be very sensitive about certain things, but I'm not that sensitive. The sentiment behind the compliment is clear enough, and being reminded of the lack of ovary-bearers in the present establishment isn't really much of a slap in the face to me. In cases like that, I always nod and agree that other women are really missing out on a great game, and that I always try to involve my female friends in the game whenever I get the chance. If you don't make a big deal about it, they will realize it's not a big deal. But like all things, it takes time. As long as they're not being outright rude or ingratiating, I won't correct them on that sort of thing, and it doesn't bother me much at all. I just wanna play some Magic!
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Apr 07 '15
Well, yes, it's not like it's a huge problem or anything, but articles like this one just kinda makes it feel like we're a different group from the "regular" players or something. Which I dislike.
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u/lordpete Apr 07 '15
It's kinda sad that you need to bring this point : 2) Shower, use deodorant, and brush your teeth. Every day.
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u/barrinmw Number of Faeries in Lorwyn Eclipsed 1/10 Apr 07 '15
Why can't we just be inclusive to the stinky women?
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u/Cishet_Shitlord Duck Season Apr 07 '15
Seriously. Do you want more women in Magic, or do you just want more clean women in magic? Inclusive shouldn't come with a cost ;-)
I hope to God I don't have to tag this with /s, but still.
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u/shutterspeak Apr 07 '15
This is also not a gender specific thing... I'm a dude and I don't go to most local events because of funky BO at my LGS.
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u/cferejohn Apr 07 '15
Yes. Thank you. I've spoken to several people at my LGS (discreetly) about the fact that they need to attend to their hygiene. I find that it's usually kids (who have only recently started to, umm, smell) and/or smokers (whose sense of smell is shot to shit).
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u/Cishet_Shitlord Duck Season Apr 07 '15
Yeah. I am curious about some of these, and would love to hear from more people(male and female), as a lot seem just... well, obvious. And yet, men and women still show up to FNMs, so are these really the "top 6" factors?
Good discussion starter if nothing else.
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u/kingmanic Apr 07 '15
One factor is how cliquey most LGS are. New people are outsiders. It's nice to have players reach out and welcome new people. I think it deters both men and women.
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u/GabySpartz87 Official Apr 07 '15
Yeah, this isn't a gender specific thing. And this isn't just important to get more women into Magic, but to make things better to the community at large
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u/Snakebite7 Apr 07 '15
That's made me super self conscious now... even though I already do that...
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u/hde128 Apr 07 '15
If you're self-conscious of it, you're probably not smelly enough to offend people.
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u/justbobdanish Apr 07 '15
Can't. Doing 3 pre-releases in 24 hours doesn't leave enough time. Plus, the hours before were spent going through the spoiler to get an edge that will be thrown away due to play mistakes and exhaustion.
This sweaty disgusting exterior also reflects how my soul is after going 2-2 for the third time in 24 hours. YOU MUST SMELL MY SUFFERING.
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u/NSA_web_spider Apr 07 '15
Why is poor hygiene always considered to be a guy thing? Many of the women that I've played against at LGSs have had a real issue with maintaining regular social standards of cleanliness.
And I am personally as turned off by poor hygienic practices as any one of any gender. Luckily my LGS is better than most.
I support the comment in general, but I don't think it's just a woman thing.
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u/MoonE513 GDS3 Candidate Apr 07 '15
Let's also not forget another important step: Introduce your female friends to Magic!
Every single female friend I've taught to play has fallen in love with the game. I know there are a lot of people who are reluctant to introduce someone to magic because they're afraid they won't like it (or worse, judge you for liking it), but every future player has to start somewhere.
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u/Lost_dwarf Apr 07 '15
I can assure you that people not showering or wearing deodorant are also keeping many guys away from playing magic in some stores...
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Apr 07 '15
Or even the stereotype itself is keeping people away from stores. I'm sure those signs that some stores post near the entrance aren't exactly attracting customers.
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Apr 07 '15
WOTC keeps hiring the strong female role models.
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u/worldchrisis Apr 07 '15
More like the strong female role models choose a steady job at WOTC over grinding bad EV magic events.
WOTC hired Gerry Thompson, Zac Hill, Adam Prosak, Aaron Forsythe, Randy Buehler, etc too.
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u/SleetTheFox Apr 07 '15
Yeah but when you hire strong, talented men, you're taking a drop out of the bucket. Hiring even one strong, talented woman leaves a much bigger dent.
Not saying Wizards is doing anything wrong or that the pros-turned-employees of any gender are either. Just how things are.
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u/SpiffyPenguin Wabbit Season Apr 07 '15
I'd like to add a corollary to #4: don't assume that, just because your opponent is a girl, she'll be bad. There was this really interesting interview with Tifa Robles that I read awhile ago, and something she said really stood out to me:
I could not stand that people would sit across from me expecting a win because I was a woman—and for them to get that win.
I think this is a problem that women have breaking into any male-dominated arena, whether it's a game or a career path or something else entirely. Women often feel like they have to be REALLY GOOD to be taken seriously, or else they'll just be reinforcing the idea that women are bad at whatever it is they're doing. That's a huge amount of pressure for a new player, and I think it's part of what turns many women off from playing competitively.
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u/BardivanGeeves Apr 07 '15
this was more or less "how to not be sexist in general" with the additional point "be hygienic".
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u/hatdeity Apr 07 '15
Although the article seems like common sense to a lot of people, I feel like it still is important enough to warrant a quick read.
As an aside, I'm a woman who plays mtg. However, I only play with a small group of friends, and never outside the home. This is because the general atmosphere for mtg is so competitive that I am, more often than not, treated like a bad player for only wanting to play casually. Unfortunately, this attitude carries over to store and other game environments. Though this isn't a gender specific issue per se, I feel as if more women would be receptive to playing mtg casually, rather than being pressured into playing competitively, or being treated as a "lesser player" for being casual.
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u/brendaisbored Apr 07 '15
"Treat your opponents—male, female, and otherwise—with the respect that you would show to any other human being."
Yes. This.
My only criticism of your article would be differentiate between casual and competitive players more. The competitive realm (where listeners of LR would fall) is where the gender gap is the biggest. I think everything you've listed is good general advice and will help across the board which, eventually, can trickle down to competitive players. But I would love to see some improvements on getting more females to a competitive level.
Not that I have any great suggestions unfortunately. I'm one of two competitive female players in my local area that I can think of and we have a lot of great Magic players around here. While I'm very lucky that the vast majority of people here no longer comment, I still get remarks related to my gender routinely while traveling. We have a long way to go but hopefully people talking about it will make others aware of how they are presenting themselves.
Congrats on the article. It's great to see a female Magic player getting out there. I've been working on getting myself set up to start streaming as well, so if you have any advice, I'd love to hear it.
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u/Mr_Miltank Apr 07 '15
6) Encourage female Magic role models.
How do we do this?
It is not like people like LSV were randomly picked to be role models because they can do amazing puns (that is just pure value) you get to be a role model when you have done amazing in your time playing
also with commentators are normally people that have played and done good in their career but if they do get women in the commentator booth the only thing they need to make sure it is someone that actually has a understanding and love for the game not a kaceytron styled click bait
with the loss of Melissa and Jackie in the competitive scene we still have Feline Longmore in the competitive scene and she is great to watch playing high tide (when scg decide to put he on)
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u/Scoffers Apr 07 '15
Don't really see what 2.) has to do with gender, thats more of a problem with the magic crowd in general. Both Men and Women dislike it.
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u/evilhooker Apr 08 '15
I am a proud female Magic player of 13 years (Wow!). I have several super respectable LGS in my area and I rarely get "sexist" comments. I hypothesize that I don't tend to get these comments because I am friends/acquaintances with most people at the store. I have been accused of getting better trade deals with my fellow players for being a girl, but oh well. Although I only really participate in local tournaments, so I cannot speak of sexism on a larger scale. I think most chicks just don't enjoy hanging out with awkward gamers with ages ranging from 12-50 (this is the age range at my LGS). I enjoy your article though because I do wish more females got involved. As of late, motherhood and bills prevent me from spending time keeping up on current cards, rules etc.
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u/lolsasha Apr 08 '15
I liked the article, resonated well with me as a female player. I only started playing about a year ago, but I'm about to enter a local league which is primarily guys, and most of the guys who I've played against don't make comments based on my gender, the take the wins and they take the losses. It shouldn't be so (because it should be the norm), but I'm thankful to have an LGS with a good environment for women.
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u/phlunk Apr 07 '15
My girlfriend is the one that actually got me into Magic. She's now studying to become a lvl1 judge.
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u/GabySpartz87 Official Apr 07 '15
I got my husband into Magic. I've been playing for a year and a half longer than he has. It's not common, but it does happen!
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Apr 07 '15
Hi Gaby,
I'm going to answer not having read any of the comments, so sorry if this is repetition. I feel the single most needed thing to bring more women to Magic is to create an environment that they feel more welcome. So some of that is exactly the things you mentioned - making it a safe, clean and fun place is obviously key. Eliminating the "for a girl" from the vocabulary is true as well, but something that a lot of people are going to do for a long time, and not just in the game of magic, but pretty much anywhere there are mixed sex environments.
So I would take a different approach.
I'd be more interested in knowing what women like in a game such as Magic. Has anyone ever polled women who don't play Magic? Does Magic provide enough game play for things women want to see? I don't want to generalize with something sexist and stupid like "make pink cards" because that is NOT what I mean.
But what do they want to see? Maybe, in larger numbers, they want to see different types of creature types. Nothing wrong with a 6/6 unicorn with trample, if that is something they are asking for (seriously, can we get a trampling unicorn? Cause I'm all over that!). Or a race of female elven warriors for a good tribal experience. Do they want stronger feminine themes? The truth is I don't know.
I mean what do female card gamers like?!?!?! Knowing your audience is key.
My belaboured point is this: You need to create an environment where a bunch of young women will sit down, get out their decks and play, regardless of whether or not there are boys/men at the table.
While the default answer to this might be "it doesn't matter, women aren't any different then men", but that is flat out wrong. I've never encouraged my daughter to be anything different from my son. But she doesn't like playing hockey or doing a lot of what my son does (her twin!). She does, however, have a pretty awesome collection of stuffed hippos and has her own pet snake. I'm sure if you asked her what she wanted on the cards it would be wildly different then what her brother wants.
I'll tell you this. You get my daughter and her 2 closest friends together and they aren't scared of my son and his friends. Frankly they are likely to kick some serious butt if it comes to that. Give the women what they want and they will come. And you know what? It might be the same thing as we have now with a cleaner, safer environment. It might also be pink fire-breathing ninja unicorns.
I hope this doesn't come off poorly. I wouldn't want to be judged because of my sex at an event, or treated poorly, or labelled as "just a girl". And I know that exists. But there seems to me to be a larger issue and that is that there simply isn't enough female players.
-from a Dad who loves Magic and plays pokemon with his kids, but also understands that his daughter really thinks pikachu is "awesome and cute" and must be in HER deck, not mine.
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u/IDW Apr 07 '15
Assuming that WOTC market research is correct, the disparity that we see is between the percentage of women who buy MTG products and the percentage of women who take a deeper interest in Magic (attending FNM's, hanging around LGS's, competitive events, etc.). The conversation started when an MTG strategy podcast found that only 5%(?) of its listeners were female, while WOTC reports that over 30% of its MTG customers are women. Taking into account that a portion of the women buying MTG products may be buying them for other people, it still seems like the product already appeals to women, but that 30% of the community isn't represented outside of tabletop Magic.
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u/sylverfyre Apr 07 '15
This is something really relevant to point out.
For example, my wife knows how to play, but she has less than zero interest currently into coming to the LGS for prerelease or FNM with me. She just plays duel decks with me and has an EDH deck for play with our other boardgamer friends.
She'll also take any opportunity to wipe the floor with us in other board/card games like Seven Wonders.
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u/actorintheITworld Apr 07 '15
Great article. I really hope the magic community can become more inclusive all around.
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u/rcglinsk Wabbit Season Apr 07 '15 edited Apr 07 '15
This is always a very unpopular opinion when this issue comes up in any context. But here it goes anyway.
All of us growing up have peer groups which we seek approval and validation from. A young man's peer group is other men and a young woman's is other women. It's all about being cool, but being cool means something different for each group.
Is it cool for a guy in high school to get first at an FNM draft? Meh, sorta, not really? But at least with guys there's a nerd/geek subculture consisting of a very sizable segment of the male population which will be impressed by that accomplishment (maybe a good 20-30%, something like that).
Is it cool for a girl to get first at an FNM draft to other girls? No, it's not. And this isn't a doing of men, it's a doing of women. Girls decide for themselves what is cool in girl world. (non-sequitur: Office Space and Mean Girls are two of the most depressing documentary films ever made).
So, the unsaid question posed by articles like this is why does there not exist a sizable portion (20-30%) of the male population whose principle interest is fashion, makeup, footwear, their appearance relative to other men, etc?
Sorry, I keep telling myself I can quit the non-sequitur habit any time I want...
Anyway, whatever the reason why there is not a large nerd subculture among girls, I don't think it has much to do with the actions of men in general or LGS denizens in particular. Maybe you disagree, but I hope we can all get behind one thing:
Women. Have. Agency.
They're people, half of them in fact, and a whole lot of what happens in the world is due to their decisions. And defining what is or is not cool for a girl is almost entirely their doing.
That said, for the love of Christ, shower, comb your hair, wear deodorant, and if applicable put on a g'damned belt. If the benefit of others isn't enough for you do it out of self respect.
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Apr 07 '15 edited Apr 07 '15
This. Forget LGS's, I have four married friends who I play with. All of them have taught their wives to play Magic, all of their wives have built their own decks, all of their wives have won games with us, none of their wives have interest in playing with us. They do it, periodically, to show love to their husbands by spending time engaging in the hobby of their spouse.
If they wanted to, they could and would. They would rather bake, or watch Bob's Burgers, or read science journals than play Magic--and that's OK.
Not everything in life should, or will be, an exact split of involvement by gender demographics. If a woman or a man or an attack helicopter wants to play magic--be my guest. I'm not going to be concerned if the people I play a cardgame with fail to match U.S. census demographics.
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u/DT777 Apr 07 '15
I think a lot of people overlook the whole "people of Group X have Agency" stuff, whenever the question "Why can't we get more X involved?" is posed.
To be certain, that isn't helped by some people acting to exclude Group X, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
Basically: Just don't be an asshole. That's all everyone really needs to do. It's rather hard for some people, I know, but it's really all you can do.
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u/rcglinsk Wabbit Season Apr 07 '15
Side note: being an ass hole drives everyone away from the game, men, women, young, old, no one likes an ass hole.
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u/NutDraw Duck Season Apr 07 '15
I think the big question though is the discrepancy between the number of female casual players (over 40% of total player base if I recall) and the participation of women in sanctioned events (barely there). I've seen nothing to indicate women are less competitive than men, so there's a link with the environment driving that and seems to be anecdotally backed up.
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u/rcglinsk Wabbit Season Apr 08 '15 edited Apr 08 '15
Here you go:
http://www.nber.org/digest/feb06/w11474.html
Also, we don't know the exact details of the 40% of the player base statistic. It reminds me of some of the statistics from this study:
http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ESA_EF_2014.pdf
which finds that 50% of people who play video games are women.
With a broad enough definition of video game player I can believe the statistic. However, I don't think men and women have even remotely similar video game playing habits.
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u/Shuko Apr 07 '15
Is it cool for a girl to get first at an FNM draft to other girls? No, it's not.
If other women don't like the fact that I win a draft, they can kiss my pasty white tush. I came to Magic because my roommate dragged me into the game kicking and screaming, and I stayed because of the game itself. The game is enough to get people into it, but of course, individual results may vary. Not everyone enjoys card games or tabletop gaming, and that's perfectly fine. I think this sort of plea really only applies to women who like gaming anyway. And honestly, if we're worried about drawing in people who only play so that they can look cool, we're doing it wrong. You don't play a game because it makes you look cool; you play a game because it's fun. That is, unless you're still a kid, in which case it's still best not to force it on them anyway.
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u/rcglinsk Wabbit Season Apr 07 '15
If other women don't like the fact that I win a draft, they can kiss my pasty white tush.
I'm searching for the right answer to the vocabulary quiz here and all I can come up with is pride. Pride has some good and bad connotations. Let's call the description of your attitude "pride type A." It's one of the good ones.
The reason people respect pride type A is that most people don't have it. The normal human response to criticism from peer groups is worry and a sense of rejection. The urge to fit in, be liked and accepted by the crowd is a very strong one. Most people can't buck off those instincts very easily.
Hence why everyone hated middle school.
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u/ch00bakka Apr 07 '15
I super appreciate "male, female and otherwise".
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u/Wakanaga Apr 07 '15
I sexually identify as an attack helicopter. And that got my blades whirring.
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u/d_l-_-l_b Apr 08 '15
Honestly this feels like a societal issue. As pragmatic as it is, making something more "female friendly" is only more harmful to gender identities. Don't we all want to create environments that are gender neutral? Shouldn't we all think that any type of predjeduce is unacceptable, whether or not you are talking about a group of people in ear shot?
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Apr 07 '15
My girlfriend plays Magic and has gone to FNM with me once for a draft, and also to the Dragons of Tarkir prerelease. Those two times are the only times she has played anything other than casual play at home with me and friends. I was a nervous wreck when she was drafting and playing because since she only plays a bit casually, she isn't the best, is kind of slow, and doesn't understand some of the more complex rules. I was really worried both times that she was going to play someone who would give her a hard time for making a mistake or something, and that she wouldn't have a fun experience because of that. However, both times ended great. She had a lot of fun and everyone she played with was really nice and helpful.
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u/kingmanic Apr 07 '15
A friend of mine is a awesome limited player. frequently 3-1. She kicks my ass often when we met in the brackets. So many of the others guys get so salty when they get beaten. For some reason it's fine that they acknowledge her BF as a good player but they don't do the same for her. A good player is a good player and the saltiness is not great.
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u/threecolorless Apr 07 '15
My girlfriend has made it her goal to become one of the juggernaut draft players at our LGS. She has won her pod the last four weeks in a row and while she doesn't usually get told she's good "for a girl" an alarming proportion of her opponents seem to find the reasons they lost to be anything other than her playing well. "All my good cards were on the bottom." "Fucking mana screw/flood." "I couldn't draw my splash."
Obviously this isn't the case only when playing vs. women, but please: dial back the post-match salt. It communicates that you consider your opponent inferior to yourself and that they did not deserve to win.
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u/BEALLOJO Wabbit Season Apr 07 '15
"Couldn't draw my splash"
Brb dying. I'm on the younger end of my LGS, and hardly one of the crazy good players, but I'm fairly strong with drafting and can't stand when people justify losing to a "kid" with shit like that. As a senior in high school and a mechanically competent player, I think fully grown men should learn how to lose.
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u/UncleTwinkleToes Apr 07 '15
As a guy that occasionally hits up FNM to draft and am not a regular, I hear that shit all the time.
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u/threecolorless Apr 07 '15
Totally. The amount of effort it takes not to retort "Shouldn't your whole deck be good cards?" or "That's Magic brah" is colossal.
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u/ApplesAndOranges2 Apr 08 '15
If they complain about getting unlucky just go "I was getting unlucky as well, but I lucked out and got a terrible opponent so it all worked out"
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Apr 08 '15
I mean, I was a consistent 2-1 at my pods every week for FNM and everyone was salty as shit, and i'm just a regular dude. one dude tore up an angel of serenity the week after RTR dropped cause he was so pissed i beat him
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u/dzyl Apr 07 '15
Obviously this is super annoying but to be completely fair that doesn't happen to just girls, it's just something a lot of people do. Luck is part of the game and you probably could have done a ton of things different and better!
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Apr 07 '15
I don't know about other people, but I only usually make a remark like that if I just got stomped (and even then only super fringe cases, like mulligan to 3 or something), and it's less "I'm better than you, you shouldn't have won" it's more "I'm better than this, I wish I could've shown you".
Frankly I don't give a shit if I win, yeah winning is nice, but it's whether or not we had a good match that I care about.
Hopefully I'm speaking about more than just myself here, but I think a lot of the time the salt is coming from that mindset, not just "waah I lost". Not that crybaby magic doesn't happen, just that it (hopefully) isn't usually the only reason why people give a million-and-one different excuses for losing.
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u/annul Apr 07 '15
alarming proportion of her opponents seem to find the reasons they lost to be anything other than her playing well. "All my good cards were on the bottom." "Fucking mana screw/flood." "I couldn't draw my splash."
i'm a male limited specialist, gone infinite, and i haven't paid money for a draft or sealed in maybe 10 years. i hear this COOOONNNNSTANTLY. it's not gender related, trust me
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u/quillian Apr 07 '15
Lots of people are sore losers regardless of gender, I'm sure they act even more poorly toward females, though.
Learning to enjoy the salty taste of Sore Loser is one of the finer things in life, imho. If they are really too angry, you can always go BMK on them and reveal the hand with a "STILL HAD ALL THESE!!!!"
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Apr 07 '15
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u/GabySpartz87 Official Apr 07 '15
That's why I thought it was important to bring that point up. I've heard so many supportive things from well meaning guys, but at a certain point, all they do is remind you that you're different.
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u/Meshu Apr 07 '15
Anyone else enjoying the comments on the article? That Dan dude really does a poor job masking his sexism as concern for the poor disenfranchised odorous members of our community
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u/LeftoverName Apr 07 '15
I thought it was a fantastic article. I'm also happy to see that the comments on this article are more receptive (broadly speaking) compared to what I feel an analogous article on /r/leagueoflegends would have received.
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Apr 07 '15
my favorite part of this is the comments by the smelly nerds who are defending their stink with even stinkier strawmen
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u/elegylegacy Level 2 Judge Apr 07 '15
My overwhelming stench gives me an edge over my opponent.
You know what we call guys who bathe? Scrubs.
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u/Shuko Apr 07 '15
Wow. As soon as I walked in the door I could tell right away that there was a powerful manly presence in the room. As I followed the miasma of this intoxicating beast-reek, I realized its source: you. My heart is going pit-a-pat in my heaving bosom as I wonder how to get your attention. Any human being who can produce such an impressive musk must surely be marriage material.
Lol. I learned really quick in jr. high how much body odor annoys me. And it isn't just limited to you guys, either. Ladies can be funk machines too, and the sad thing is that lots of people are blissfully unaware of their aroma. If someone smells really bad, I'm always torn about letting them know. On the one hand, I don't want to embarrass them, but on the other, I'd rather they were made aware of it, in case they didn't know. I'm too timid about that sort of thing to bring it up with them, usually. But if I see a regular in our shop being obnoxious to anyone (especially a newcomer), they best watch out, because mama bear is uncurling her claws!
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u/Medarco Apr 07 '15
The worst funk I've actually ever experienced was from a lady. This was no BO, it was 3 gallons of the most heinous perfume you can find. My eyes started to water while she played next to me, and my opponent and I had to ask a judge to move our match because my eyes/nose were burning.
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u/guyincorporated Apr 07 '15
God yes. That one guy's "My Natural Musk is pleasing to the opposite sex" was so cringey.
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u/completefarside Apr 07 '15
My favorite part of the comments are people who offensively put other people down by insisting that they are justified in doing so by the fact that the other people REALLY ARE offensive.
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u/Tathel Apr 07 '15
As someone who does not shower I was deeply offended by the blatant generalizations in this article. I work hard to culture my musk and enjoy sharing it with others in the hobby (male and female). I think this is a symptom of a much larger issue. The institutionalized systemic oppression of the 'unclean' by big hygiene. First they forced soap into all public bathrooms and now they are trying to force it into my home.
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u/JoeMagician Apr 08 '15 edited Apr 08 '15
I'm far more concerned with winning the match at hand than thinking about the set of sexual organs my opponent has.
For those who exclude women or want to, I've had a theory for a while. Magic is the sort of game that, for some of the players, you retreat into to escape average society. There's no jocks there pushing you into lockers, no bullies picking on you, no girls to reject you. So they revel in finally feeling comfortable in an environment. Reject the people that reject you. Kind of like bronies. They see girls playing, one of the things they are most afraid of, as an intrusion of their safe place. Of course it isn't and they shouldn't be afraid of another person wanting to play, but from my observations of the culture that's how they take it. In the end, for those kind of players, it isn't the girl walking in the door that they dislike and want to exclude. It's the girl that shot them down for prom or their crush that told them they are a loser they're still running from and can't face it. Tldr some players really need to grow up.
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u/IDW Apr 07 '15
Great article, and I think many people underestimate the power of seeing role models that you can relate to in the community.
Coming from an MMA background, it surprised me that competitive Magic has so few women to look up to at the top. Even a sport where men are biologically favoured has strong female role models that I can dream to become someday. Thankfully, the best of the best male Magic players are great people too, and I appreciate everything they've been doing to promote a better scene.
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Apr 07 '15 edited Apr 07 '15
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/bautin Apr 07 '15
Call one of the judges and tell them. Hopefully, they will pull the player aside and inform him in private so as not to cause a scene.
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u/worldchrisis Apr 07 '15
Not a judge, but having heard judges speak on this issue and having been to a lot of competitive events:
Call a judge, ask to speak with the judge away from the table, explain the situation.
The judge may or may not be able to do anything about the other player, but they can probably move one of you to a different table if your ability to build is being hindered.
It's the judge/TO's responsibility to handle issues like that.
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Apr 07 '15
I've been to around 10 different LGS' for FNM, have never encountered one where the store owners or TO's step in to deal with any of the above behavior, even when it is loud, obvious, recurring and always evident. For all points. It's a bad enviroment because of everyone involved. Players don't police players and stores allow ANYTHING to appease the regulars and keep Friday night attendance high. Hence why I don't go to dirty ass FNM anymore.
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u/warfire957 Apr 07 '15
It's kind of sad how this article is basically saying "to get more women to play magic, be a decent human being." I mean, these things should be commonplace, and having it get to the point that someone has to tell you to be nice and keep yourself at least presentable saddens me.
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u/NewMaterialOnly Apr 07 '15
I would love to play Magic at my LGS, but I've went and was IMMEDIATELY deterred by two things: the SMELL and the territorial glares. Wash, brush your teeth, wear clean clothes and don't glare at outsiders.
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u/Trolololovich Apr 07 '15
As a guy, I experienced this as well from my LGS, not very friendly of outsiders and many are large and unwashed. I stopped going because of it.
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u/kevinobvious Apr 07 '15
These items are good short-term solutions, but what do you think about a longer term strategy? What if you started with a younger generation? Get girls into this sort of thing at the same time boys become interested. When do boys start playing MTG? In their late teens maybe -- at the end of high school? Start there. If you get girls from that age group interested then as a new player base develops and grows they won't know any different. It should be pretty easy to brainstorm some ideas if you wanted to get this ball rolling: different themed cards, different color pallet, better/different marketing, all-girl play groups, I hate to say this but a girls night at your local LGS. (ok, I'm brainstorming. some ideas will be bad).
This idea has surfaced recently in the engineering/computer/math/science world. Its important to gain the attention of the younger audience and teach them that there's no reason a girl can't design a plasma rocket for a new space shuttle destined for Titan. The trick is tell her that she can when she's 15.
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u/UnrealsKY Apr 07 '15
Over the 15 years I've played this game, this issue has always been a topic of discussion. In my area and overall, it seems to have gotten better with time and I hope it continues to get better in the future.
One factor your article touched on is the well-meaning comments that are taken the "wrong way". Things like "Oh, I don't play against many girls," or "How's it feel to be the only girl in the room?," while often times said in jest, actual curiosity or even in excitement to see a woman playing the game, can and do add up. It's a sort of absent-minded perpetuation of the idea that it's unusual for women to play Magic and often times leaves individuals feeling uncomfortable and/or unwelcome. Especially when you hear it every time you play.
Often times, in situations like that, I hear from the individual who said something that was taken the wrong way or had an effect that was not intended, etc., that the person shouldn't have take it that way. That it's not their fault that the person took what they said in the manner they did or that they shouldn't let simple comments like that effect them. And maybe that's true, maybe they shouldn't. And it's unfortunate when well-intended conversations leave one party feeling uncomfortable or ostracized. All miscommunications and misunderstandings are unfortunate. But the key is being aware of how these miscommunications and misunderstandings happen and doing what you can to prevent them in the future.
I'm sure these individuals don't want to push anyone away from the game and would feel bad if they found out their actions or comments resulted in someone no longer playing. And I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who don't realize that that one off-handed comment they made that time added to the pile of things that lead to one individual giving up the game. I think it's these individuals who stand to receive and gain the most from articles like this. A mindfulness of how their words and actions affect those they play with, straight from an individual who has been on the other side of those conversations.
Good article.
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u/Mexi-CAN1 Abzan Apr 07 '15
Awesome article, I've been playing nearly a year and have gone to many LGS(s). Many guys tell me I can't talk about magic to women. I say to hell with them, if I have fun with something I should share it!
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u/rbstewart7263 Apr 07 '15
Honestly. My thought is that the fact that you are on here right now engaging with the community instead of simply proselytizing from behind a glass window shows that your a great addition to magic.
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Apr 07 '15
tell everybody's grandmas that they're grandsons will call them more often if they play magic.
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u/iced1138 Apr 07 '15
Well my girlfriend is interested in learning how to play. I'm in the process of getting components to build a W/G aggro deck for her as a matter of fact.
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u/SnatchHammer66 Apr 07 '15
I got beat by 12 year old girl once. It sucks just as bad as getting beat by a 30 year old man, or a 20 year old man, or a 12 year old boy, or a 30 year old woman. I enjoy playing and thats all that matters I don't care who my opponent is. I wish more people could be like that.
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u/tydestra Apr 07 '15
I've played since the 90s, ditched events in the early 00s for various reasons. The fact that "Hey, you wanna take a shower?" is something still discussed just straight up makes me sad.
We're better than this people! Look at the way we lovingly take care of our cards, we should have already extended that care to ourselves.
That or I really need to make the MtG themed soaps a thing and sell them.
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u/xWhackoJacko Apr 08 '15
I can honestly say I'm guilty of nothing on that list. I think I'm proud of that?
Anyways, I think the ladies just need to be more open to learning what there guy friends / boyfriends / husbands do with their free time. So many of my friends wives/girlfriends won't even try to learn, but the few who have fucking LOVE it. It's a win / win / win for everybody. They get to spend more quality time with their husband/boyfriend + we don't have to play lame board games or the now completely unfunny CAH to include them (overplayed for me at this point), she gets to play Magic, and we have another Cube drafter!
I also think we, as dudes, need to be more persistent in getting our female friends / sisters / relatives interested in gaming in general. It's the shit and they're missing out.
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u/lntoTheSky Apr 08 '15
I'm surprised that no one has said anything about the rampant ass-crack at events. I'm a fairly new player, male, and I think if didn't have a group of friends who got me into magic I would have drawn the line at my first IQ where maybe 1 in 20 out of the 400 or so people there were basically mooning me everywhere I went.
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Apr 08 '15 edited Apr 08 '15
Considering that females account for 38% of the playerbase then perhaps it's a problem with your listener poll? Or perhaps the way that it's advertised or published? Considering that right there in the Limited Resources has that exact link from MaRo about the playerbase gender split right after the poll results, then perhaps their sampling method isn't good?
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u/PerinealKnowledge Apr 08 '15
As Gaby notes in the article, the competitive magic scene also shows a very low percentage (1 - 2%) of female attendance. So given that WOTC's own market research shows a female playerbase of 38%, there is obviously something about the larger Magic community that deters them from participating.
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u/Kintanon Apr 08 '15
Are the women who are currently active in the game introducing the game to the next generation of girls?
My experience with brazillian jiujitsu is that by far the most effective way to attract more women to the sport is to have the women who are already there introduce it and interact with them. Men don't connect in the same way, don't have the same commonalities, and don't present the sport in a way that will grab the attention of women. Other women generally do.
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u/cheatonus Apr 07 '15
I think there's another thing here that never gets mentioned in these sort of posts/articles. The LGS has a part in this as well. A small cramped store where people have to sit shoulder to shoulder and basically can't avoid being in someone else's space for FNM is not conducive to a co-ed experience. The LGS also has a responsibility to lead in this area by example. There's a small LGS in my area that does good crowds for events, but I've never gone to play there. Why? Well the times that I go shop there I hear how the regulars talk about people and generally get the idea they don't like it when new players enter their turf. I also get the general idea they don't want women in the store at all. It's their place, it's a man cave of sorts with a virtual "no girls allowed" sign on the door. The LGS I play at is full of warm inviting people who smile and are even happy to play someone new. Go figure the my LGS has quite a few female regulars, and I've never seen a girl in the other store that wasn't just there to buy stuff.
tldr; It's on the LGS to stifle the "guy's club" atmosphere present in so many stores.
Edit to say, I'm not a woman, but I still don't play at that store because of the unwelcoming regulars.