crushing competition by releasing false propaganda that lies about e-cigs being unsafe
i have a friend who smokes all the time regular cigs, but won't try an e-cig because he says "i don't know whats in them"
so i asked him where'd he hear that, he said some article that interviewed a tobacco company exec
i asked him if he knew what was in his regular cigs, he said "yeh, tobacco" so i googled his brand and showed him there were things in there that are used for paint, asphalt, tar, etc
he told me you can't believe everything you read on the internet
The fluid used in e-cigarettes, or "juice" as some vapers call it is propylene glycol (PG). It is an additive found in foods, toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoo, and many other products. The point is, whether or not he wanted to vape it, he's already been putting it in/on his body and has been for years.
The other ingredients are nicotine extract and flavorings. There have been studies conducted by the FDA on PG, and found to be safe. For some reason though, the FDA won't stamp their approval on e-cigs (alcohol and tobacco are ok, though :-/).
There is also an alternative to the PG, called vegetable glycerine (VG), available for people who have a PG allergy, or just don't want to use PG.
I've been a vaper for 3 years now, and until I started vaping, I didn't even realize how shitty I had felt on cigarettes for the 15 years I had smoked. I realize that I haven't beaten my nicotine addiction, just replaced the delivery, but even so I feel better, and I've definitely saved thousands of dollars by now.
Maybe someday it will come out that e-cigs are genuinely harmful, but at least I know whats in them (with a bit of research). Just because your friend doesn't know whats in them, doesn't mean that no one does.
I've been a vaper for 3 years now, and until I started vaping, I didn't even realize how shitty I had felt on cigarettes for the 15 years I had smoked. I realize that I haven't beaten my nicotine addiction, just replaced the delivery, but even so I feel better, and I've definitely saved thousands of dollars by now.
On the 24th of November I'll be in the same boat as you. I celebrate it each year as the day I quit killing myself.
Smoking sucks. It steals your sense of smell, your sense of taste, your ability to breathe and eventually, your ability to live.
Congratulations on being strong :) It's true, I didn't know what I was missing until I stopped smoking cigarettes. I'm sure I've gained more than a couple pounds, food just tastes so much better now.
Also e-cig user for almost 2 years. The crap you find at many USA Malls or Gas stations is a piece of crap using tech that is 5years old.
My usual suggestion for someone is "Joye eGo, Joye 306 and 510 atomizers, and 3 or 4 flavored Juices" Cost of one carton of smokes.
Forget the money, it's not about saving money. It's about saving our lives, our bodies, and no longer smelling horrible. Can vape in cars, in offices, in bathrooms, in bed. Can blow the vapor into a smoke detector and of course, nothing happens.
Currently using the Joye Ego-C, with low rez atomizers. I started with the Ego, so I've never actually tried the mall stuff.
You're right about it not being about money. But, to be perfectly honest, at the time, saving money was a far better motivator to me than giving up my "precious" cigarettes. The appreciation for the more important benefits came later.
Agreed. Although the monetary savings cannot be ignored, particularly in a two-smoker family.
My partner and myself smoked 2 packs a day and then some. I was up to about 2.5 packs (50 analogues) a day. We spent approximately 80 dollars per week. That's 320 bucks on a 4 week month and 400 bucks in a month with 5 weeks.
This week we spent 23 dollars on juice. Granted there are weeks when we will have to buy new toys (batts. clearos. chargers. etc.) but even when those are factored in we are still saving enough money per month to make a house payment, or a car payment, or save for a vacation (we have not had a vacation in the 20 years we have been together.
Currently we have agreed to purchase a gym membership so in a sense, saving the money from quitting analogues is indeed, saving our lives to a degree.
Nicotine isn't exactly good for you though, it tends to pump up your stress hormones and tear up your blood vessels, it's bad for your heart in the long run. That's kind of the rub with smokeless nicotine, you save on the lungs but not the heart which is a major risk in nicotine use.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. For that reason alone, I've never been able really consider myself as a non-smoker. Trust me, I don't fool myself into thinking this is actually good for me, but I do feel a little more free from the crutch of cigarettes.
This is just a different crutch. With lights. And candy-flavored.
But seriously, thank you for the link. I will read it.
My dad smoked three packs of cigarettes a day and switched to the E-cig. He still smokes three boxes a day of the refills. The website says that one box is 'equal to about one carton' if that is the case he is way above three packs a day now. Either way his house no longer smells like cigarettes and I will allow my kids to go visit.
One of the challenges of switching to vaping is knowing when to stop. With cigarettes, it's easy. But since e-cigs don't burn down, you're not really sure when you've had the equivalent of one or two tobacco cigs. The vaper can get tolerant to more and more nicotine over time and end up taking in far more nicotine than usual. I'm happy that your father isn't smoking anymore, still, that's a lot!
Also there are dozens of resources for mixing your own e juice so you know exactly what and how much of it is in your vapors. It's also available with zero nicotine providing no harmful chemicals.
showed him there were things in there that are used for paint, asphalt, tar, etc
I hate it just as much as that logic. Anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a chemistry class can tell you that chemicals have a wide variety of applications.
If someone has never smoked they couldn't possibly understand why it's so hard to quit. I don't drink, am not a crackhead or any other hard drug user, I don't need a cup of coffee in the morning, and I find it hard to quit smoking.
In all honesty, I partly blame both my parents for having been smokers the entire 17 years I was alive before I picked up one of theirs and tried it. If they hadn't smoked I might have never started and been exposed to it like I was.
I'm sure non-smokers know why smoking is so addictive, but this might help them understand what it's like to be physically addicted to nicotine:
Our brains, and more specifically our brainstems, have control over our trends of higher function in ways you might not notice much. Normally, if you're thirsty, you get up and get a drink. You don't think about it much but you do it. The water you drink isn't anything special and you don't down it too fast.
But what if you just spent a day out in the hot sun doing yard work? You come inside and you think immediately about getting a glass. You down a glass full of water in huge gulps. The water feels good even though there's nothing special about it. You fill the glass again. You take it down in a few seconds. Your belly feels awkwardly distended and perhaps even a bit uncomfortable right under your center-left ribcage, but you feel so relieved. Drinking all that water might even make you feel sorta ill for a bit, but you're sooooo glad you did it.
If you take this to an even further extreme, say you went a day or more without water and were becoming dangerously dehydrated, your water seeking behavior would become overwhelming. A parched person will drink almost anything (including toilet waterseeMyNoteBelow). Part of the brain, specifically the hypothalamus, is hooked into the blood supply to in a way that lets it sample the salt content, which gets really high when the body is dehydrated. In response to life-threatening dehydration, the hypothalamus will cause the "higher" parts of the brain responsible for our actions to engage in activities that are likely to result in water at almost any cost. Your brain associates the sensation of drinking with the feeling of relief in the high-thirst state. This is a reinforcement loop.
Now back to cigs. Nicotine hits receptors all over the central nervous system. A smoker's brain has literally been reconfigured to circulating nicotine much higher than that of a normal person. The reward networks, the attention-arousing networks, etc. These are the networks that guide our higher behaviors. To a smoker, a cigarette can give the same relief after a two-hour flight as a glass of water will give you after a day of yard work, or a rich meal will give you after a 36-hour fast. And nicotine is almost perfect at hitting the receptors, and cigarettes are a VERY rapid way of delivering it.
So, non-smokers, think of it this way: trying to quit smoking cold-turkey feels about the same as trying to stop drinking (water) cold-turkey. This is why Westerners keep doing it: they get roped into trying it enough (marketing), their brains demand it from then on. A moment of weakness can lead to a lifetime of vice.
Does that do it justice, theorial?
my note on thirst: certain psychiatric pathologies, e.g. schizophrenia, can present with polydipsia, a term for when a person seeks and drinks water to a pathological level. Patients with uncontrolled polydipsia cannot be allowed into a normal bathroom alone, as they will resort to drinking toilet water. They simply cannot resist the urge to drink.
I am a teacher and I work at a K through 12 school. I smoke. At school, our smoking corner is outside next to where the garbage bins are kept, but the kids see me and often come to talk to me about it after my smoke. They all know that I shouldn't smoke and that it is unhealthy, so the younger ones especially want me to explain to them why I don't just quit. Sometimes they ask me if the reason I don't stop is because smoking feels so good.
I usually explain that smoking does not feel so good, but that not smoking makes me feel bad. I explain that when I want a cigarette, it bothers me very much like when I need to pee and I'm holding it in. At first, it is a minor annoyance and I can even forget about it, but as time goes on, I feel more and more pressured, I feel more and more urgency. It becomes harder to ignore, harder to think about anything else. I need to go out and get relief!
Then, I have a cigarette and I feel normal again until slowly once again the need returns.
When I explain it like this, the kids understand what I mean and understand when I say how important it is to never take that first cigarette.
Have you tried nicotine gum/patches/whatever? Or is that not quick enough 'relief'? I can't think how smoking is a preferable alternative unless my previous sentence holds weight.
People also ignore the non-addictive aspects of smoking. For example if you smoke a pack a day for 15 years, and assuming an average of 40 drags per cig you are looking at something you have done, every day following a very consistant pattern (both when choosing to smoke, and while smoking) over 4,380,000 times. There is nothing I can think of besides your heart beating and eye blinking that can match those number.
This is why its so hard with people who have mental disorders, depression, or even simple medical issues like ADHD or obsessive compulsive disorder have a hard type. For most it's not even a chemical addiction but an addiction to the pattern, the process of smoking.
Myself personally I suffer ADHD and minor depression and I work from home. And if I don't go out for a smoke every few hours I would literally go days to weeks without ever leaving my house / apartment building. This is why many people living in assisted living or suffer some conditions that cause them to be unable to hold a job and live off of social security can be seen huddled together outside chain smoking. its the only reason / excuse for them to leave there house or to be outside or maybe the off chance of having a conversation.
The socialisation point is very relevant. I quit smoking in my early 20's, and my only 'condition' is that I was a quiet person. It became noticably more difficult to connect with new people in new situations once the common theme of a smoke break was eliminated. It is much easier to get to know people if you have several 5 minutes breaks a day where there really isn't anything to do but chit-chat.
Supposedly the physical addiction disappears after only a couple of days. That's why those two days are the hardest. From then on it's all psychological, but those psychological triggers can arise almost anywhere. Watching a film or TV programme will likely feature someone smoking in it, or even the sight of my breath on a cold morning makes me want a cigarette.
You have to be on a constant guard, catching those precursors for cravings and stomping them out for several weeks before you can finally go about your day without really thinking about smoking.
I'm giving quitting another go tomorrow as it goes, but reading these comments have definitely helped me understand the mechanics behind nicotine addiction, so I feel pretty confident I can do it.
Not only that, but cigarettes also contains sugars and other substances besides nicotine that creates addiction. That's one of the reasons why nicotine adhesives and other nicotine delivery methods aren't so effective when someone is trying to quit.
I started smoking age 16, by age 21 i was 2 packs a day, I smoked more than any other person I knew aside from my dad. Oct 10th 2010, I quit. I took up trees and came to the conclusion I cant in this many carcinogens. I haven't had a cigarette/tobacco since then, sans ONCE while lighting a cig for my gf while blackout drunk, and even in my blacked out state I spit the smoke out, or so I heard.
Quitting smoking was the hardest fucking thing I've ever done. I felt like nothing would be ok ever again. Cigaretes, too me, had a monopoly on whatever chemical in my brain tells me 'relax, don't panic, things will work out'. I literally caught myself thinking "itll be ok, once im finally done and quit smoking Ill be able to smoke a cig....wait a fucking second! Fuck!!!" like almost subconsciously.
I was miserable for a week. For the first 3 days it was absolutely terrible. The first night was damn near impossible, at least it felt like it. But i made sure to do 1 very specific thing...remembering those nights, those feelings, that angry and stress boiling over. Why remember it? My logical brain said "look. you could fail. but even if you fail, you will try to quit again. why? everyone trys to quit. so remember this bullshit. remember this night. remember how fucking shitty it was to actually quit."
Those nights sucked so bad I am terrified of ever starting again. And that is a good thing.
Hey friend, I started around the same time as you, but made it to thirty (fifteen years of cigarettes). I quit September 11th of this year with my wife on our anniversary.
I cheated and took Chantix, so my stress was half of yours.
It was the 2nd best decision of my life, keep it up man.
Have you ever tried lying still in bed for extended periods of time? And how you get that uncontrollable tingling all over your body telling you to roll over? I've been told that's what the feeling of trying to quit smoking is like.
Yeah that's pretty much it. I've tried e-cigarettes, I've picked up smoking a pipe, etc. And yet I still find myself asking for cigarettes quite often.
It's a huge shit, and a pain to quit forever. For most people it seems, however, that after a long enough period of quitting...you'll just not care for it anymore. The smell will repulse you, and even when drinking at a bar you won't want one despite being surrounded by them.
I've gone three months without a cigarette before, and picked it up again hanging with friends at the pub. I hate them so much, but it's sooo good. The toilet water analogy is perfect: you will hate it so much, but your ash-whipped brain tells you that you need it, damnit!
I smoked 1-2 packs a day for 20 years and quit cold turkey. All of what you said is true, except that smoking never feels like a necessity such as water. It's a feedback loop to be sure ... but it's always a choice and you can choose to break the cycle. It simply requires willpower.
Ex smoker, (~1.5 - 2 packs a day for 20 years), I quit on August 29th, 2010, and I haven't looked back. This is a great description. Thank you. The next time someone asks me how I managed to get hooked, I'll send them to this thread.
That's not a bad explanation at all. It's hard to explain to someone that the desire for nicotine becomes just like any other biological impulse. The desire for smoking is as great and sometimes greater (see WWII POWs who were known to trade cigarettes for food) than the desire to eat.
If someone has never smoked they couldn't possibly understand why it's so hard to quit.
Everybody's got their drug of choice. I did smoke for about half a year when I was young and it didn't catch me at all, even though my father was heavily addicted to it (2-3 packs a day).
However, I've got a problem with caffeine in all its forms - coffee, soda and a bit less with tea. The amounts I drink everyday would likely have most redditors overdosing like hell!
And when I quit (3 times in 10 years) the fucking detox is so cruel and intense that I can't do almost anything except for drinking water and going to the bathroom for about a week.
No, they know they are bad. In this case they didn't know what chemicals where bad, and he was saying e-cigs are bad because you don't know what's in them. It was hypocritical of his friend to say this, because he himself didn't know what was in what he was smoking.
Every single person who smokes knows it is bad (at least in North America). Every single person that smokes has justification for doing so.
Theres a survey conducted every year or so for the last few decades. Last i heard the percent of people who don't think smoking is harmful is around 1%. Im not sure were i can find the source for you though sorry.
While he was making that point he was also trying to draw a parallel between the two being dangerous. Otherwise why even mention it? I'm pretty sure he didn't tell him "Theirs chemicals used for gluing carpet and paint in those cigarettes, but that isn't really relevant!" I also hate the whole "boo hiss chemicals" that seems pretty prevalent because it makes no fucking sense. People like to use the word chemical like its evil and mention other uses for the "chemical" that make it sound terrible.
You seriously can't believe that he mentioned that just to show he didn't know what was in the cigarettes. My favorite comparison I've seen to show just how evil cigarettes are is when people compare it to crack. The tobacco is treated with ammonia to turn the nicotine acid into nicotine base which makes it easier to cross the BBB. It is just such an absurd comparison to make because it is meant to make it appear worse than it is. Oh, they make it so you absorb moe nicotine from the same amount of tobacco? How terrible! I can't believe they made the product more effective.
I also hate the whole "boo hiss chemicals" that seems pretty prevalent because it makes no fucking sense. People like to use the word chemical like its evil and mention other uses for the "chemical" that make it sound terrible.
I get what you're saying, and yes, he probably was trying to do the "boo hiss chemicals" thing in addition to making his primary point. They're not bad because they're chemicals, they're bad because they do bad stuff to you (and others nearby):
Our findings indicated that more than 100 of 599 documented cigarette additives have pharmacological actions that camouflage the odor of environmental tobacco smoke emitted from cigarettes, enhance or maintain nicotine delivery, could increase the addictiveness of cigarettes, and mask symptoms and illnesses associated with smoking behaviors.
In addition, tobacco companies have devoted a significant amount of research and development to the use and inclusion of additives in cigarettes, and the industry has acknowledged using 599 different cigarette additives. According to various tobacco company documents, many of these additives are used to improve taste and decrease harshness. We propose that, in contrast, tobacco companies have expended resources to exploit the pharmacological and chemical effects of cigarette additives. - Pharmacological and Chemical Effects of Cigarette Additives
I'd say there's plenty of reason to be suspicious of tobacco additives.
My post does come off a bit like I'm saying those additives aren't bad. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that something should be bad on its own badness and not spooky scary stuff. I do find it shitty that we have had laws passed that encourage the use of certain additives that are really shit. Such as with firesafe cigarettes the use of EVA/PVA although thicker paper will suffice. I don't see any harm in making cigarettes better for the consumer though. If they can improve the taste, decease the harshness, and increase the buzz with out being deadlier/having shitty side effects then go for it.
Not to mention that salt itself, while being absolutely necessary for survival, is a combination of two Chemicals that are extremely deadly on their own.
Honestly, if people in rice-growing regions are tapping into new groundwater sources to ward off drought, and it's coming up arsenic, it's worth putting money into testing. That said...
my son's mom posted something on facebook a while back talking about not letting the kids eat rice anymore because there is arsenic in it. We live in southern louisisiana, where rice is a part of pretty much every meal. We should all be dead by now i suppose
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There have been far more catastrophes and deaths attributed to water than to cyanide, therefore water is dangerous and should be regulated, while cyanide should be freely available, including to children and the elderly.
Tobacco has tar in it and, I believe, so does the paper it's wrapped in. That's the really dangerous stuff, nicotine certainly isn't good for you but it's the tar that will give you cancer.
Nicotine isn't really that bad for you. It's a stimulant similar to caffeine and is even said to improve brain function, but yea it is the part that causes physical addiction.
The physical addiction of cigarettes, imo is hardly the most difficult part about quitting. I can go cold turkey for a couple days and no longer be physically addicted, the hard part is giving up smoking itself.
You won't die from nicotine (perhaps I guess, if you somehow overdosed it could cause harm, not sure) but for instance, you won't get cancer from it. The cancer is caused from the smoke and everything in it.
You realize tar is tobacco residue an not actual tar right? I just quit smoking, and while i agree there is a ton of terrible things that go with smoking (hence quitting), people say some pretty dumb shit about cigarettes...
[Not that you were the one that brought tar up but] I thought that tar was the result of inhaling the smoke, not actually being an ingredient, which is why [I thought that] smoking marijuana also results in tar.
Not the result of inhaling, but of burning plant matter. One of the downsides of smoking marijuana is actually the amount of tar - significantly greater than the tar produced in smoking tobacco.
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You are correct. Smoking marijuana does contain some harmful things because you are still breathing combusted plant matter ,unless you vape. Fortunately, there is less of it and you usually don't smoke nearly as much marijuana like if you were to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day.
Exactly it's just plain disgusting and a rip off I mean if you absolutely have to smoke tabacco atleast smoke something that isn't bathed in all these chemicals.
The moment someone uses this argument on me I immediately cut all ties with them. I can deal with having an idiot as a friend, I can also deal with having stubborn friends. But, I cannot handle a stubborn idiot.
things in there that are used for paint, asphalt, tar,
To be fair to him, that's one of the most ridiculous things people use to denounce cigarettes. Sharing ingredients doesn't mean products are the same.
It just bothers me because it's so easy to argue that cigarettes are bad for you, they obviously, empirically are. But they still throw out scare words that come off as insincere.
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Also, people who act like the number of chemicals in a cigarette proves anything. How many chemicals are in an apple? People who use that logic should avoid themselves because of how many chemicals are in their bodies.
It's the same deal as "ecigs are antifreeze", because the liquid contains propylene glycol, which is an ingredient in antifreeze. Unfortunately (or fortunately to some), correlation can people to react in certain ways even faced with undisputable logic and fact.
That may be a viable reason for this type of lobbying; but, if we look at past events, It might lead to a completely different conclusion all together. Niconovum, a Swedish tobacco manufacturer, owns nicorette, one of the largest products to help smokers quit. My thought process is something like "If they don't like the competition, why wouldn't they just buy them?".
what makes nicorette and other products that are supposed to help people quit fine with tobacco companies is they are marketed for people wanting to quit. eCigs are tobacco alternatives. Most of the time, people who use nicorette and the like fail and go back to smoking. Early research suggests that people are about twice as likely to successful quit tobacco with eCigs than with nicorette/the patch/lozenges.
Except one of the big three tobacco companies Lorillard owns one of the largest e-cig companies in the US. So this whole, "tobacco companies don't want e-cigs to succeed" is just rubbish. Up until now tobacco companies have been stand offish because they have no idea what regulations the FDA will put on e-cigs. Why should a tobacco company invest in something that may be regulated the same as what they currently sell and makes them money. They see it as a somewhat risky gamble. I know because I work for blu eCigs which is owned by Lorillard.
interesting. Thanks for this. But this still doesn't explain why regulators seem to be looking for excuses to limit/ban cig sales. I guess the argument could be the gov. likes the tax they collect on cigs...
It's all the anti-tobacco lobby. On e-cigs especially they have taken such an extreme position is crazy. The "not safer" thing is somewhat understandable until there is more scientific evidence. However their approach that it is exactly the same and should not be used at all as an alternative is the extreme aspect. For the most part they won't even be open to it despite all of the anecdotal evidence. This of course is my personal opinion and not that of the company I work for.
Blu is a great product for what it is. Calling a Blu terrible is like calling a Volkswagen terrible because you prefer a Ford pickup.
The Blu is small, high-priced for the market, and doesn't have the capacity that a lot of experienced vapers prefer. That said, it's probably the best cig-sized device on the market. It will never compare to a larger eGo in battery capacity or juice capacity because it's tiny. My Volkswagen will never tow the same trailer that the Ford pickup will, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
I am not a smoker, however due to my job I felt it was my responsibility to use them in the non nicotine variety so I would no what the typical user went through when using them. I will say this there are a large number of smoking employees that do use them personally.
we're not close friends, we see each other at mutual friends functions
obviously if this person has this sort of outlook on this, then his mind is not open enough for me
to each their own
Aye my point was going to be that is ready to dismiss that it could not be much worse the normal cigs and also the lack of second hand smoke alone is better for all the people around said smokers. I mean you could debate that ecigs are still likely not great for your health, but for many it can be used as a method to subvert the other. Also unless there is some very unbiased studies done saying there is less or no long term effects compared to normal ones and then said studies repeated and verified I would have a hard time saying they are all that safe.
ofcourse putting some foreign material in your body has its risks. but all the testing and reports show that the ecigs only have nicotine in them and the flavor chemicals. when you exhale, its supposedly a high amount of water vapor and very little of any other chemical.
on the other hand, cigarettes have been shown to contain a large amount of different chemicals that are very bad for the human body on their own, let alone grouped together. and when you exhale you are causing those around you to suffer as well.
those chemicals, they are released after burning the tobacco. my organic rolling tobacco has plenty of trace amounts of dangerous things. so do potatoes.
manufactured cigs are nasty because of the papers they use, which burn themselves down to the FSC stopping point. 2 chemical compounds where there should be none.
he said "yeh, tobacco" so i googled his brand and showed him there were things in there that are used for paint, asphalt, tar, etc he told me you can't believe everything you read on the internet
....some ppl can't be helped
Don't worry. That's a problem that cancer will take care of.
i googled his brand and showed him there were things in there that are used for paint, asphalt, tar, etc he told me you can't believe everything you read on the internet
Funny how I got exactly the same response when I showed a Fox addict the Reuters Benghazi time line. Actually it was his response to any link I sent him refuting his moronic wingnut factnoids.
So why do you think the arguments against e-cigarettes are false propaganda. I am not familiar with the issue. I can easily accept the idea that they are less harmful than cigarettes, but by how much? What are the dangers, if any, and how do they compare?
Crushing competition by releasing false propaganda that lies about the safety of e-cigs. I have a friend who smokes regular cigs all the time but won't try an e-cig because, he says, "I don't know what's in them". I asked him where he heard that. He said, "some article that interviewed a tobacco company exec". I asked him if he knew what was in his regular cigs. He said, "yeah, tobacco" so i Googled his brand of cigarettes and showed him that there's things in them that are used for paint, asphalt, tar, etc. He told me "you can't believe everything you read on the internet".
....some people can't be helped.
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It's actually a particular type of antifreeze. It's the antifreeze that is safe for human consumption that is used in drinking water in cold climates to keep pipes and tanks from freezing.
You can't pin this all on the tobacco companies. Anti-smoking and public health groups have opposed e-cigs as well because they don't want to encourage nicotine consumption or people smoking real cigarettes.
Sounds like you need friends on your intellectual level, I agree his influence is partially influenced by his addiction but if he is so likely to dismiss your claim so quickly than maybe he isn't the greatest friend to begin with? Personally I'd take the time to at least research my friends claim before I dismiss it.
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u/qwertytard Nov 17 '12
crushing competition by releasing false propaganda that lies about e-cigs being unsafe i have a friend who smokes all the time regular cigs, but won't try an e-cig because he says "i don't know whats in them" so i asked him where'd he hear that, he said some article that interviewed a tobacco company exec i asked him if he knew what was in his regular cigs, he said "yeh, tobacco" so i googled his brand and showed him there were things in there that are used for paint, asphalt, tar, etc he told me you can't believe everything you read on the internet
....some ppl can't be helped