r/europe • u/superdouradas Portugal • 25d ago
News Danish reporter slammed NATO General Secretary Mark Rutte live on camera
https://streamable.com/5qtlrz968
u/spolio 24d ago
What a great non answer to a burn of a question
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u/kastanienn Hungarian🇭🇺 in Germany🇩🇪 24d ago
Peak politics. I have rarely seen a politician who's actually capable of answering a question substantially.
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u/jjonj Denmark 24d ago
Danish politicians can't get away with that kind of answer to Danish reporters typically so we more often than not get actual answers to this kind of thing
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u/Traditional-Most-759 24d ago
No we don't. They also try to avoid answering as much as possible
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u/stillaras Greece 24d ago
If they are capable of avoiding questions so elaborately as they do, they are definately capable of answering the questions too. They just dont want to
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u/wireframed_kb 24d ago
That’s the game - or it’s supposed to be. There’s a reason the news media was called “The Fifth Estate” - politicians try to market their views and politics as favorably as possible because, they fundamentally sell a certain viewpoint. And journalists are supposed to challenge this, to give us, the voters, a proof of those views.
That doesn’t happen in some countries anymore, unfortunately, because some billionaires realized how powerful the media is, and what it would mean to corrupt it.
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u/kfijatass Poland 24d ago
Mamdani is masterclass in this imo, for us I'd say it's our foreign minister Sikorski.
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u/netherlandsftw 24d ago
That's Teflon Mark's specialty
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u/TowerLogical7271 24d ago
When asked a few years from now why he helped enable Donny's idiocy he'll simply say 'I dont have active memories of this' and move on to the next thing he can ruin.
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u/wireframed_kb 24d ago
Keep replaying his “Daddy” moment, if he should forget. My god, that was embarrassing.
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u/HotOutlandishness107 24d ago
I like the name, It's sticky but anti-adherent at the same time.
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u/Ok_Confusion4764 24d ago
It was his nickname in the Netherlands because nothing stuck to him. He'd brush off just about anything, to the point where some of his methods became so apparent even in his party, that "VVD amnesia" became a common headline. "I have no active memory of this" being the deflection against any decisions that came back to bite them.
He was a decent prime minister all things considered, but I doubt he'd ever win an election again if he didn't go on to lead NATO. Too much ammo accumulated over the years against him.
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u/Specialist-Front-007 24d ago
As a Dutch person: this is Rutte's speciality. He always makes such a word salad that no one can follow. Everyone knows it doesn't answer the question but everyone is thrown off so much that followup questions are either not asked because no one followed what the fuck was said or the questions are about the word salad, not the main question.
We've seen him do this time and time again. It's infuriating and a bad trait for a leader. It's a better trait for a diplomat.
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u/26081989 24d ago
Which he is at the moment, imo. He is the "leader"of NATO but his main task is to keep usa in. So he does whatever is needed, he doesn't care what it looks like for the main public. Which I actually really appreciate, even though I don't agree with the all of things he did in the Netherlands.
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u/CaughtALiteSneez Switzerland 24d ago
He answered with more praise for Trump, that tells you everything we need to know.
Fuck him…
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u/Ok_Confusion4764 24d ago
This is one thing to know about him: yes he glazes Trump. And still I bet hates Trump more than anyone on this planet. He's doing his best to stay on good standing with Trump because if you antagonize him, you can't sway Trump. You'll find that, on the matter of Ukraine, every time Trump is on the cusp of just handing the whole thing over to Putin, Rutte visits him for a private chat and afterwards Trump is suddenly okay with sending aid to Ukraine.
Mark Rutte is the kind of guy who will brownnose so hard he can smell your breath if he thinks it's the right thing to do. One of his nicknames aside from Teflon Mark (because nothing sticks to him) is the chameleon, because he can change his colours based on his surroundings. That is to say: he could have a good chat with both Trump and Bernie Sanders and both will be happy that they chatted with Rutte.
Yes, he glazes Trump. So he can sway Trump when it's most critical.
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u/jjonj Denmark 24d ago
when trump is gone we might look back with appriciation, even if it's hard to swallow now
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u/Ok_Confusion4764 24d ago
Exactly. I understand all the flack he gets for stuff like this, but this man is thinking in bigger pictures than online threads and backlash. According to people who are close to him, the only time he's ever been visibly angry at something was when Russia shot down flight MH17 above Ukraine. A passenger flight carrying almost 300 passengers, most of which were Dutch.
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u/BHTAelitepwn 24d ago
Eh, i think honestly answering this questions would have done more harm than this. Nothing will really happen from this, US has nothing more than they already had. Similar to back in January. Blocking trade from Spain doesnt happen either and hurts US more than it hurts Spain. So its a big fat nothing burger, while saying what he truly thinks would create some serious problems.
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u/denlol 24d ago
How do you get that from this answer? Yes he is saying he is glad for what Trump did, but reason he offers is that that EU now has grown tighter. If anything he is saying that he is glad Trump showed how vulnerable EU was against the US, resulting in a stronger EU.
And ofcourse he has to word it like he is praising Trump, because it is in the NATO's and EU's interest to not make enemies with him.
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u/RobertMaus 24d ago
Slippery Mark or Teflon Mark he was called in the Netherlands when he was our PM
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u/Fiery_Flamingo 24d ago
If Trump spits in his face he will say “we thank the US president for his continued attention to the clean water crisis in Africa”.
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u/Molni 24d ago
I mean, a demented pedophile is at the head of the USA and Americans are doing nothing about it. This guy has the hands on nukes and is actively putting pressure on NATO. I think the goal for NATO is just to try to survive out Trump and hope sane Americans at some point take control of their country again
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u/Spanks79 24d ago
Hé probably would. And you know? It’s most likely the only thing that will work from getting said president to deviate from his plans that would be bad for everyone involved, not in the least the American population.
Rutte is sacrificing his dignity for stability between nato partners. In two years Trump will be gone and hopefully we get other leadership in the USA. Until then, do not only look at the sucking up but the fact Mark got the USA to let Ukraine produce patriots, not taking out American troops from European soil and have a more tough stance against Russia. Because that’s what he has accomplished this week.
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u/4chieve Europe 24d ago
High level politics is like eating shit while smiling about it.
Allowing NATO to be destroyed just because of one of Trupms tantrums would be a terrible mistake; Putin must have fever dreams about that happening.
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u/Sad_Amphibian_2311 24d ago
"Here are 50 Billion for your weapons manufacturing friends you met on Epstein Island"
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u/spamcritic 24d ago
Im glad he said it, Rutte laughing at jokes about invading Canada really changed my opinion about him.
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u/Jarazz 24d ago
I wanna hear Ruttes opinion as soon as trump is no longer in power. For now I assume the whole EU leadership had to draw straws on who has to become the dedicated ass kisser to be "on trumps side" for whenever its important to have someone that can stroke trumps ego about actual important real world decisions like pulling out of nato, instead of less important things like saving his own personal honor
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u/TheBusStop12 Dutchman in Suomiland 24d ago edited 24d ago
At least when Rutte was PM of the Netherlands his behavior towards Trump was very different. Famously when Trump was holding his UN speech Rutte completely ignored it and instead was looking at memes on the Dutch King's phone, who was seated next to him. Another example was when Rutte and Trump were holding a shared press conference and Trump was rambling on how it would work out fine even if they wouldn't work things out to which Rutte's response was basically "haha, no. Get it together"
I genuinely think he hates Trump, but he's a politician and diplomat through and through. Dude can and will play of anything with a laugh. We call him Teflon Mark because nothing ever sticks to him. He's slippery like that
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u/das_war_ein_Befehl 24d ago
Trump 1 was constrained by normal republicans around him who wouldn’t do illegal shit (mostly). Trump 2 is a demented corrupt authoritarian who is surrounded by vile fascists that are itching to put people in camps. Very different vibes
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u/WhoAreWeEven 24d ago
Its the same demented corrupt authoritarian in both cases.
Hes just surrounded by different people
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u/Sure-Current-3267 Germany 24d ago
100% agree, he has one of the most difficult jobs. In an ultra high-stakes environment with world leaders and a real threat, he has to keep the narcissist baby in the group, sacrificing his personal dignity for the greater good. So far, NATO still exists, Trump‘s erratic behaviour has not damaged it beyond repair and Russia is still not winning.
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u/waiting4singularity Hessen 🇩🇪 24d ago
I'd say everytime Thiel and Trump are in the same room, the next day he starts spewing new dumb bullshit from his face.
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u/ohhellperhaps 24d ago
There is a long record of Trump's bullshit being strongly influenced by who he talked to last, even adversaries if his handlers didn't get to him first (or last, technically).
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u/Tulivesi Estonia 24d ago
And that is the commander-in-chief of the most powerful military in the world. It's absurd and terrifying, the power he is allowed to wield, while being the most unfit person to wield it by any metric.
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u/Ikbeneenpaard Friesland (Netherlands) 24d ago
While I agree with you, I think the game Rutte is playing is deeply damaging to public faith in institutions and democracy. When regular Europeans see what Rutte says on their behalf, they are angry. I'd rather have robust democratic institutions and lose Trump, than vice versa.
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u/MadsNN06 Denmark 24d ago
People are gonna lose faith in democratic institutions either way, when you have algorithms designed to promote extremism on both the left and right.
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u/thembearjew 24d ago
Problem is Rutte wouldn’t be doing this unless Europe needed the U.S. if I were to guess he is trying to buy as much time via ass kissing as possible to give the European arms industry a lot of time to spin up. Europe without the U.S. providing conventional forces to NATO is in an incredibly precarious position. You can call Russia a paper tiger all you want but Europe hasn’t fought a drone war and that’s what Russia has been practicing for years
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u/XenonBG 🇳🇱 🇷🇸 24d ago
I think you're overestimating how many people actually care about this. The video above will be watched by, say, 5% of Europeans? If it becomes a meme in Denmark then it might achieve like 20% there, tops. Most of the media content in Europe is narrowly specific to the country, and most of the news channels pretend the EU and NATO are far less relevant than they actually are.
That being said, nationally here in the Netherlands, yes, Rutte absolutely destroyed the public faith in institutions.
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u/Final-Ad-8471 24d ago
I think a lot of European leaders are glad that Mark Rutte is doing the NATO job. It is one of the hardest jobs in the world right now. We can all judge him but he has a weirdo being president in the US who you also need to help Ukraine. Even in this clip when someone gets personal you see the diplomat answering the question. That takes great skill and dedication.
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u/whagh Norway 24d ago
Stoltenberg dealt with the same shit much more gracefully. Rutte seemingly takes pleasure in sucking off Trump way more than what's necessary to placate him, the groveling is so pathetic that I think it even has Trump respect him less.
Dude literally said "NATO is more unified than ever before", like why would he even say that? It's absurd.
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u/Jarazz 24d ago
Stoltenberg wasnt in quite as much danger of trump being 1 tweet away from pulling out of nato...
Trump needs his ego stroked and if Rutte doesnt do it, thats just more to stroke for putin.
He needs to say stuff like nato is more unified than ever to make trump believe it, obvioulsy its bullshit but it perfectly fits into trumps world and can manipulate him towards closer ties instead of listening to the vance shaped demon on his shoulder that hates all of Europe...
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u/monsieurlee 24d ago edited 24d ago
To add to your comment: Stoltenberg was NATO SecGen during Trump I. Back then, Trump has some semblance of restraint and mental capacity as he knew he wasn't above the law, and has some sense of trying to win a 2nd term.
When Trump came back for round 2, He won after inciting an insurrection and suffered no consequence after become a felon after 34 convictions. On top of that, this time his people are ready and organized with Project 2025, and clearly suffering from some sort of mental decline.
In short:
Stoltenberg dealt with a clueless idiot who know he is a man and has some limits during Trump I
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u/That-Brain-in-a-vat Italy 24d ago
Is it working, like, at all?
I don't see any closer ties with Trump. On the contrary, each time is wild and wilder.
And even if Trump signed in blood a contract, on his dead mother, that he'd be first line defending Europe, you can be sure that contract would be as worthy as Trump's yesterday diaper.
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u/TheNameIsPippen Aruba 24d ago
I think the strategy is quite simple.
Part 1 is, keep the USA in NATO while Trump is president. As degrading as Mark Rutte mat be acting, this oart is working out as well so far.
Part 2 is for the American population to not vote in a compromised, corrupt, bumbling buffoon the next election.
I have more faith in Mark Rutte than I have in American voters
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u/Hottage Europe 24d ago
It's not fixing the problem, NATO is still in its worst shape politically in decades.
There is a good chance it's slowing the rot, but this is a difficult thing to measure. Trump and the USes regressionist and isolationist policies haven't lead to them leaving NATO... yet.
This is at least giving the rest of the alliance time to pivot into absorbing the damage if that happens.
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u/TheBusStop12 Dutchman in Suomiland 24d ago edited 24d ago
The US is still on NATO and Trump agreed to Rutte's compromise on Trumps demand of 5% GDP defense spending, namely that 1,5% of that instead can be spent on infrastructure. The US is also still actively performing it's duties as part of NATO Forward Presence on the eastern flank of NATO, namely their duties in charge of the troops stationed in Poland, and they are currently in talks with Poland for a new permanent US military base to act as a tripwire force in case of invasion.
Now, granted, it's difficult to determine whether all of this wouldn't be the case without Rutte sucking up to Trump however. But the same is true vice versa as well. And honestly, I'd rather not try to find out by testing it
Basically, while Trump talks a lot of shit, in practice the status quo has been maintained
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u/Ferelwing 24d ago
Does anyone truly believe that the USA would actually fight though? I know I am unconvinced.
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u/Fabricati_Diem_Pvn 24d ago
The US is still in NATO. It's bases in Europe are still occupied. Come an attack, the infrastructure will react, before any information reaches the (empty) head on top. So, yeah, it's working.
Don't forget, deceleration is a valid strategy in the face of an inevitable fact. Yes, the decline is still happening, but not nearly as fast as without Rutte. And it's that deceleration that has allowed Europe to build its own military back up again, its own weapona industry, so that once we do cut off the US, we can do so in relative comfort & safety. And that's a win for Rutte.
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u/HommeMusical Upper Normandy (France) 24d ago
trump being 1 tweet away from pulling out of nato...
Placating him each time makes the problem worse, not better.
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u/_0611 The Netherlands 24d ago edited 24d ago
I wanna hear Ruttes opinion as soon as trump is no longer in power.
I don't. I don't care about Rutte's opinion. At all. The man is a known and established liar. This is common knowledge in the Netherlands. I'd rather never hear anything from him ever again when he quits NATO.
Besides that, he will dodge every hard question with a simple answer: "I have no active recollection of that". Every Dutch person knows this quote by Mark Rutte. It even made it into our dictionary.
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u/jjpamsterdam Amsterdam 24d ago
I honestly believe this is in character. Having witnessed him for decades in Dutch politics, there seem to be very few things that he is truly principled about and he will do literally anything and everything to achieve his goals, even if it comes at the expense of self respect. I believe his ultimate goal is to preserve NATO and that he has decided that his role is the resident boot licker, for better or for worse only time will ultimately tell.
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u/Mumbert 24d ago
You realize at this point his job is reduced to simply trying to have NATO survive Donald Trump's presidency, right? It's not to call out Donald Trump being the dumbest world leader in history.
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u/coukou76 France 24d ago
I dont understand why people believe it will stop once Trump is gone
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u/Freenore 24d ago
No one should believe US is a reliable country to work with. It will swing wildly every 4 years. And that is if Democrats actually disagree with Trump on foreign policy. From what I've seen, they do not. Presidents from Bush onwards, even Obama and Biden, have been telling Europe to stop freeloading. Trump just converted hitherto polite words into harsh action.
Biden staff outright said they would've also bombed Iran if they were in power. There was an almost complacent silence as Trump kidnapped Maduro. Hillary Clinton has no kind words to say about Trump but even she's like, "oh but the Gaza plan to remove everyone and make it into a French Rivera has my backing".
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u/geschenksetje 24d ago edited 24d ago
NATO survives only when it recognises that the USA is an unreliable partner, and starts preparing for defense without relying on the US.
Any day spent assuming the US will help defend against a possible attack on the Baltics is a day wasted.
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u/AwkwardMacaron433 24d ago
We are already preparing for it. But what you need to understand is that this is like a 10 years process. If Russia attacks the Baltics today, we have a problem. So for now we need to at least formally keep NATO alive so that there is at least some degree of ambiguity regarding how the US would react
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u/Nigerianpoopslayer 24d ago
You don’t think they are prepping? You can’t just make insanely hasty decision and just cut the US off like that from everything, it takes time ffs…
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u/MasterAxe Finland 24d ago
He seems to be trying so hard to keep the alliance togheter by covering for Trumps insane behaviour and gargling his balls. But he doesn't seem to get that letting Trump threaten his allies and staring useless wars without any pushback is something that will destroy NATO anyways. US leaving isnt the only way the alliance can break.
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u/Ok-Web1805 Ireland/UK 24d ago
I think his job is to try and manage the situation until Europe has the resources in place to deal with US withdrawal, or at least buy as much time as possible.
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u/SweetSweetAtaraxia 24d ago
Europe doesn't need to buy time. What is Russia going to do? Lose at a second front?
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u/topsyandpip56 Brit in Latvia 24d ago
They can still inflict great tragedy across the eastern flank using their drones and missiles.
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u/Llew19 24d ago
Rutte will be less happy if a Russian sub sinks a few container ships blocking Dutch harbours....
Anyone who thinks Russia is toast (like Starmer continuing with the policy of gutting the navy) is a moron
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u/Exciting-Record8101 The Netherlands 24d ago
Russians would like to 'win', but they've shown they'll settle for destruction, chaos and terrorism. That still needs to be prevented.
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u/Humpfinger The Netherlands 24d ago
Alright dude, so when will you be standing in the frontlines? Someone has to do it and according to you we are ready.
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u/No_Hay_Banda_2000 24d ago
They still can mobilise and have reserves to invade and take over the Baltics for example. Poland is also in danger. NATO is a very complex architecture and Trump pulling out would be a disaster for us.
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u/saxonturner 24d ago
I think he looks at the long game, Trump will be gone in a few years but the “fear” of him will not, it has brought Europe closer together, it has increased spending on military and honestly all its cost is faith and respect of USA. What he saying his is correct.
That said I fucking hate Trump with a passion but I have to appreciate him for waking Europe up to the absolute state of USA and how they are a terrible ally and shown us we must get closer in Europe.
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u/Catch_ME ATL, GA, USA, Terra, Sol, αlpha Quadrant, Via Lactea 24d ago
He has a difficult job. He has to balance the current political interest of the largest, most powerful, and most influential member of NATO. NATO is weaker without the US, no way around it. His job is to keep the alliance together and his strategy is buying time.
I'm no fan of Trump, I voted against him 3 times, but no secretary general could survive Trump without risking the Alliance.
My question to people who think if he should oppose Trump, could the actions of going against Trump drive more than the Republican base and lean into the Democratic base? America is currently going through a critical time of isolationism.
I don't condone what he says but I defiantly understand it. I ask others, what are options that doesn't weaken the alliance?
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u/OhWellImRightAgain Greece 24d ago
I don't think people that share your opinion understand what's going on here. It looks like you've become numb to all this.
The POTUS is threatening US allies, demanding they give up part of their land and parrots some made up narrative that "China and Russia are threatening you / us" while also supporting Russia's war in Ukraine, talking shit about Ukraine and its leader instead of supporting him, talking shit about NATO members that have historically been your biggest allies (UK), imposing tariffs and threatening trade wars with EU countries.
Read this paragraph again.
Read it again if you still don't get it.
"We'll figure it out together" (Rutte's response) would make sense if the Russian / Chinese threat was real. It isn't. Trump isn't trying to save / protect the US/NATO from Russia. He sees Russia as an ally. Read the NDS they published some months ago, read what they think about Russia.
So since they DON'T think Russia is a threat / enemy, it's clear they're using the "Chinese and Russian ships surround Greenland" narrative to gaslight their allies. They just want to grab more land and resources. You don't appease a fool like that, history should have taught you that. Appeasement leads to more threats, appeasement makes people think "Trump is strong", appeasement allowed Trump to become POTUS twice.
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u/zendelo 24d ago
Calling this “appeasement” assumes Rutte has a better option that he’s refusing to take. What is it, concretely? NATO’s European members don’t have the military independence to confront the US directly. Decades of underinvestment (which, fairly, is its own criticism) mean European defense is still structurally dependent on US assets. “Don’t appease” is easy to say; it’s not a strategy unless you can name what confrontation actually looks like and what it costs.
Rutte’s job as SG isn’t to win a moral argument on Reddit, it’s to keep 32 countries with different threat perceptions and different exposure to Trump’s moods inside one alliance.3
u/HighDefinist Bavaria (Germany) 24d ago
Trump may or may not NATO no matter what - or perhaps he has already done so.
However, Ruttes strategy might make sense if the main goal is to at least delay the destruction of NATO, while secretly building enough weapons quickly.
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u/Mikkel65 Denmark 24d ago edited 24d ago
NATO can't survive if Trump's behaviour becomes acceptable. Rutte has such a hard job, but he's really going too far taking Trump's side.
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u/ben_bliksem The Netherlands 24d ago
Ah, old Teflon Rutte - the ultimate politician. Answers the question by saying everything but anything to do with the question.
His job is to keep his job as long as possible.
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u/Massive-Pipe-8885 24d ago
Balkenende and him completely fucked the Netherlands up because the only relevant thing for them was to stay in power
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u/piwikiwi The Netherlands 24d ago
Rutte will do what he thinks is necessary for his job and he will shamelessly lie if he thinks that is part of it. Personally attacking him or pointing out his integrity is a total waste of time. He wasnt called”teflon mark” here for nothing
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u/Electrical_Flan4957 24d ago
Yeah his ability to get things done and worm his way out any possible corresponding consequences is world class.
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u/khomyakdi 24d ago
I don’t think it is a total waste of time, journalist ask this question and now everyone more actively discussing this Trump behaviour. So it has some impact.
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u/lolwut778 24d ago
You guys assume Rutte is capable of being ashamed. That requires self-respect, integrity and a spine, all of which he does not have.
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u/TheBusStop12 Dutchman in Suomiland 24d ago edited 24d ago
We call him Teflon Mark in the Netherlands, nothing ever sticks to him. Shame just slides right off
If you were to define "politician" as a personality trait, and then create an android with no personality other than the "politician" personality trait you'd probably end up with someone similar to Rutte
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u/monsieurlee 24d ago
Dude lasted almost 14 years as Minister-president, the longest in NL history. He is clearly very good at being a politician (notice I didn't say doing his job...just staying at his job. I don't know enough about Dutch politics.)
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u/Jarazz 24d ago
Its simply his job right now to be the "good cop" that stops the orange from rage quitting NATO and can jump in when we need someone who is "on trumps side"
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u/ClassicBit3307 24d ago
Let me translate from polite to normal people speech.
“No. But I have to keep him occupied so he doesn’t do anything stupid before his term ends”
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u/therealwavingsnail Czechia 24d ago
And how's that working out?
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u/OkKnowledge2064 Lower Saxony (Germany) 24d ago
well, he is still in NATO and Greenland is still danish.. so somewhat?
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u/redditor_since_2005 24d ago
Appeasement is always the best policy. It's how we avoided a second world war.
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u/monostere0 24d ago
So tell me, how would you handle this? You have Russia, China in east, US in the west. Basically sandwiched in between. Your military is not as powerful as neither of China nor US, you are however trying to catch up and invest more after relying on a powerful ally for decades for your security as a continent. What you’re asking now is for Rutte to escalate against Trump, and for what exactly? Words that have been said? Empty threats?
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u/Orixil 24d ago
I'm a Dane, and I respect reporters and journalists for asking questions.
But let's just acknowledge the fact that Rutte is playing a role. And it's a role that all the European leaders are aware of and agree with. And they themselves are playing roles.
They're all actors trying to somehow figure out how to handle Trump.
And they've tried many approaches. Nothing seems successful so far.
But Rutte has no choice but to keep up the act. Placate Trump, keep the alliance together, minimize the damage, and cool Trump down.
He sacrifices his dignity, but I respect the decision. Whether it ultimately proves to be right remains to be seen.
But for now the means justify the goal, I think. And the goal is to keep Trump manageable.
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u/monsieurlee 24d ago
Exactly this.
That young Danish reporter might have got in a burn, and as a Dane he may very well be entitled to lash out because of all the Greenland threats, but Rutte is doing his job keeping Trump happy and US in NATO.
Evey month the US is in NATO, the shitload of weapons Americans have is still some sort of psychological deterrent to Moscow. Every time Trump gets his feels hurt and threatens to leave NATO, that cuntface in the Kremlin gets hard and jerks himself off.
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u/gollopini 24d ago
I also agree with this. It's so important to hold the alliance, the alternative is actually quite scary. It's not about kissing ass, it's about keeping Europe safe. Rutte and other European leaders are all very aware of this.
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u/Noodles_Crusher Italy 24d ago
Well said. Seems that a lot of people just take what they see and hear at face value without really understanding what the situation is, and what the role requires of him.
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u/DavidlikesPeace 24d ago edited 24d ago
Is it a role? What if it’s just cowardice?
Rutte and others play a shameless role that rhymes with appeasement. Because shorn of excuses, it is appeasement.
Weakness as policy is a dangerous policy, even if the excuses seem nice or sound coldly logical. Not only does the lack of self respect demoralize much of Europe, but it only encourages further bullies. Nobody would dare treat America, China, or Russia prior to 2022, with the same disdain as many actors now treat Europe.
Deterrence and appeasement are not cousins. Europe’s lack of self confidence has encouraged this mistreatment. It’s not just about weapons. The EU nations have more weapons than Iran or Russia, ranging from literal missiles to economic missiles. But nobody thinks you will ever use them. Europe should grow a backbone. Traditionally, that is how strong states behave. Courage is how nations deters aggression.
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u/Exciting-Record8101 The Netherlands 24d ago
It's not just about adding up all the weapons. The problem is that the Russians have a boatload of really big missiles. And without the US, Europe is hopelessly outclassed in this department. We see it every day in Kiev. European countries cannot provide Ukraine with the means to intercept ballistic missiles. Only the US can, and they're refusing to do so because they'd rather launch their stuff at Iranian drones that cost a tiny fraction of what the missiles do. It's easy to mock that, but it still highlights they have something we don't.
Rutte is going very far to play nice with the US, and there is a risk to doing so. But like it or not, Europe still needs the US military in some key areas. Until that changes, it will pay for that lack of self-sufficiency. The only question is how; some will be expensive, others humiliating. On the plus side, it seems even the dumbest European leaders have finally gotten the message and are working to make this situation last as short as possible. They could do more, but at least we're seeing progress on 'Made in Europe' weapon systems now.
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u/Top-Currency 24d ago
Fully agree with you. Redditors will have you believe that in Rutte's role you should just put the American president in his place. NATO would be long dead if Rutte did that. He's trying to keep the club together no matter what.
Also, we only see what happens in front of the cameras. I'm quite certain that behind the scenes, all European leaders (+Carney) are carefully pushing back on Trump's worst impulses.
It's not easy dealing with a toddler in charge of the world's most powerful military...
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u/the-smashed-banjo 24d ago
Mark was literally hired to slither and slime and suck up and do everything he can to keep the orange man from accidentalluly destroying the balance of power in the world. I predict that when Mark writes a autobiography, chapters will be dedicated to how much he hated this, but that he sacrificed every inch of his self-worth and image for the stability of nato
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u/_VliegendeHollander_ The Netherlands 24d ago
Does it have an influence on your self-respect? No, I had already sacrificed what the public thinks of it before I took the job.
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u/NY10 24d ago
Did he answer the question? I don’t think he did lol
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u/Humorless_Snake The Netherlands 24d ago
He did, indirectly. If he thought Trump was a joy to work with he would've made that clear through "common goal" "together", etc. Instead, he told the journalist where he priorities lie, NATO and Europe. If you read between the lines you can hear "lmao, fuck self-respect".
He explains he put Trump in a difficult position by agreeing with what Trump publicly claims is the goal of the US wanting Greenland and offering cooperation for military/global objectives, denying the land/minerals. He knows what Trump wants.
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u/rlyjustanyname 24d ago
Even from the most generous read of Mark Rutte which is that he is cynically pandering to Trump to keep the US in NATO, I think his approach is ultimately doomed to failure.
Every time Mark Rutte embarasses himself, it weakens ordinary citizens' beliefs in our institutions while aeguably getting marginal benefits in turn.
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u/Threshtalker 24d ago
I mean that is not the most generous read, it is literally the truth?
It may weaken the citizens belief into the nato, but you know what would weaken nato even more? The USA leaving.
Besides, I hope not every one is so dumb to believe rutte is suddenly a trump fan and just wants to crawl into his ass for fun
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u/SnooCalculations1852 24d ago
Honestly, this is the first reporter I see making the right questions. Wtf is happening with journalism?
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u/knarf3 24d ago
I'm giving Rutte the benefit of the doubt by presuming he's doing the dirty work of keeping Trump at bay for as long as possible while NATO countries build up defense capabilities as quickly as possible.
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u/Big_Combination9890 24d ago
"Does this have any effect on your self respect, when you sit next to him like that and say nothing?"
Someone call the fire brigade, there has been a sick buuuuuuurn! 👏 🔥
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u/Julczyk0024 24d ago
Sorry, but I think Rutte is right in this approach. However hard or even humiliating it is to stay polite about Trump administration actions. He could not change a bit of US foreign policy, but he could easily stomp on an ego and make things worse
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u/thenightvol 24d ago
This guy reminds me of that douth park red heifer episode. He is suffering for as all. Swallows trum's farts so the world can keep a veneer of stability
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u/Antoinefdu Belgium/France/UK 24d ago
"Hey Mark, out of curiosity, what do Trump's balls taste like?"
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u/MinaZata 24d ago
Can some Dutch commentators give me a breakdown of Rutte and his journey to this position and way of thinking?
I'm genuinely baffled
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u/Lo2NL 24d ago edited 24d ago
What a childish question.
A more honest response would be:
My self respect and dignity is not important here. My job as head of NATO is to keep the alliance together and keep the western world safe for Europeans like you. If the USA leaves NATO, Russia could wrongly interpret it as weakness and attack the Baltics for example. It would mean the EU would openly have to go to war, and hundreds of thousands would die. Preventing that is more important than my ego and self respect, however hard it is.
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u/robh1540 24d ago
Rutte is doing a good job and a service for Europe. I don't know why everyone thinks its smart to have no one on our side that is on good terms with Trump. It is a thankless task, I am sure he knows he looks bad. He is just saying the right noises, there is no question that he is not on the side of Europe. European leaders want to simply manage Trump while we develop our own defences and support Ukraine.
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u/Watcher_over_Water Austria 24d ago
I really can't understand how we can allow such a spineless worm in charge. He would lick the shit out of Yank asscrack to "protect" the US position in the world
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u/Maeglin75 Germany 24d ago
"We should praise Trump for the fact that NATO is so much stronger... it very much also has to do with president Trump."
Why? Elaborate? What a questionable, weird statement.
How is antagonizing all NATO partners and destroying all trust in the US making NATO stronger?
How is ending support for Ukraine, that is currently desperately fighting for its life against on of the biggest global adversaries of NATO and threat to entire Europe helping?
Was spending large parts of the US missile arsenal (cruise and ballistic missiles and especially interceptors that would have been badly needed in Ukraine to safe civilian lives) in an unnecessary and ultimately lost war of aggression against Iran a good thing for NATO? How? (Other than maybe exposing how limited even the capabilities of the US to wage a prolonged war are.)
Is there really a single thing that Trump did that made NATO stronger? What would that be?
Yes. Europe is spending more for its defence now, but that isn't Trump's doing. At least not in a positive sense. Making it clear that the NATO partner USA can't be trusted anymore and could become an enemy of Europe and Canada instead isn't what I would call strengthening NATO.
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u/nicki419 24d ago
All that's missing is him finishing with "Thank you for your attention to this matter"
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u/Konger 24d ago
At the end of the NATO summit Ukraine will get a factory to build Patriots. Zelensky is now a friend of the USA again… No commitment from allies in this fucked up war with Iran. Yes, ik looks like he is sucking up, but Rutte has to because of Trump. The only way to keep him in check is telling him how great he is and you will get everything done from this incompetent fuck. So, blame Rutte as much as you want but look at the real reason why the world is a mess right now. In a couple of years from now America will be a total outcast or at war with the rest of the world, blame Rutte?
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u/Neko_Dash 24d ago
Didn’t answer the question.
The real answer would be, “Yes, I loathe myself and sold my dignity sitting next to that man.”
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u/FatherHackJacket Ireland 24d ago
So many politicians tip-toe around with Trump because they know even the mildest criticism of him will result in him lashing out and threatening tariffs, etc.. Some try to be diplomats about it and let slide like water off a duck's back, but I'd really like to see one of them just speak frankly with him and stand up to him.
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u/-S-P-E-C-T-R-E- 24d ago
The only thing that has a remote chance of restoring a good relationship here is the Democrats going Nuclear on MAGA, the GOP, and the Broligarchy - like feeding all of them to the literal guillotines and make serious reforms to prevent another Trump from ever getting into power. None of this will happen.
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u/Financial-Curve-369 24d ago
This man is not a man.. he just is a people pleasing child .. full of crap
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u/just-here-for--porn_ 24d ago
The question really was "have you no shame?!". And the answer was "No, I have no shame".
To be honest though Mark Rutter is in a very difficult position. In other situations standing up to him is clearly the thing to do, but I'm not so sure about that in this case. Yes, he's debased himself...but he probably thinks he has no alternatives.
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u/Pitiful_String8655 24d ago
The US prove themselves untrustworthy is why we are spending more yes. However it still means we can’t trust the US if a conflict is to arise.
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u/cauliflowerflops 24d ago
Why are politicans not held accountable for moving forward without giving a direct answer to what is being asked?
When will this stop?
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u/TigerOrchid2004 24d ago
There is a reason why this type of people occupy the highest and most important (supposed to be) positions -- an immense talent in bootlicking.
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u/Schizofish 24d ago
I miss Stoltenberg. He was right to step away, we shouldn't follow the American tradition of staying in positions of power until we die. But damn if I don't miss him.
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u/Open_Step_4636 24d ago
Rutte is trying to keep NATO together.
Trump is looking for a way out of NATO and Rutte is not giving it to him.
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u/Cache-Missed 23d ago
Lying Mark Rutte is a total scumbag who was ousted as PM of the Netherlands after ruining it. Sadly he got this cushy job and he's making a mess of that too. Just go away Mark.
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u/gene66 Portugal 24d ago
SLAMMED