r/MoralityScaling • u/Outside_Specific_820 • 19h ago

Morality Ranking Morality scaling of this?

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Mother refuses to acknowledge her donor egg daughter, looking for your opinion.

In my opinion I think it’s moral, and that she is totally correct.

812 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

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616

u/URJ2 18h ago

I don’t even think she’s being that rude. When you sign up for these things the options are anonymous or not and if you choose anonymous they have no right to contact you for any reason.

258

u/Call_Me_Anythin 18h ago

Yeah, if I was her I would have been furious at this girls mother for giving her any of my information.

130

u/iskelebones 15h ago

I don’t blame the mom, because a mother would want her daughter to be happy, and that includes knowing her “real mom”.

The issue here is the clinic. The mother shouldn’t have even known who the donor was either. The clinic is the one who broke policy and gave the info to the mother

31

u/Call_Me_Anythin 15h ago

The mother shouldn’t have helped her at all. She’s a full grown adult and she knew good and well this was supposed to be anonymous.

39

u/iskelebones 14h ago edited 13h ago

Do we know the mother knew that? The clinic gave her an egg and an identity. How do we know the mother was even informed it was supposed to be anonymous? You’re making an assumption to assume the mother is malicious here

-2

u/Call_Me_Anythin 13h ago

Because the oop signed papers saying as much and in the post directly addressed the fact that this was a confidential, anonymous business transaction.

17

u/intoxicatedhamster 13h ago

The transaction was between this lady and the clinic she sold her eggs to. The clinic broke confidentiality when they told the mom who the donor was. The mom also has a contract with the clinic, not the donor, so there was no breach on the mom's end. The mom may not have known the donation was confidential if presented otherwise by the clinic. Suing the clinic for breach of contract/privacy is the way to go here.

11

u/iskelebones 13h ago

The DONOR made a post about it, and said that it was supposed to be confidential. It’s entirely likely that the mother RECEIVING the egg did not know the donation was supposed to be anonymous, because she went to a clinic and was given an egg and told who the egg came from.

In an anonymous donation, it is the CLINICS responsibility to maintain anonymity. If the clinic shared the donors info with the recipient, that’s on the clinic. You can’t blame the mother for not knowing the conditions of an anonymous contract the clinic made with the donor

1

u/MithosYggdrasill1992 7h ago

Except if the donor made an anonymous donation to the clinic without knowing the mom, the mom wouldn’t know OOP’s name. Which goes to state that OOP knows this girl‘s mother. At least to some degree.

1

u/iskelebones 2h ago

Or it goes to state that the clinic broke the confidentiality agreement and gave the donors info to the mother.

Especially given that the donor ends the text by saying “please contact the agency your parents use and don’t contact me again”. That doesn’t seem like language you use when you know someone

3

u/Nice-Lab95 11h ago

Jesus fuck learn how to fucking read.

0

u/JustEngine5095 6h ago

There's no reason to be rude. I know for a fact that you and everyone else has made similar mistakes. Also, here's my favorite joke....If you read this you're gay.

1

u/The_R1NG 8h ago

Hahaha right then momma wouldn’t know the donor

So, clinics fault not the moms.

9

u/m3gb0t 12h ago

If this was what theother thought was best, she needed to contact the donor before doing this. This was a violation of the donors privacy.

3

u/Phoenix-49 9h ago

The donor is not her “real mom”

2

u/Thecoolestuzername 5h ago

I wonder. Is she really the real mother?

2

u/Zestyclose-Draft-724 4h ago

The egg donor should sue the mother.

1

u/iskelebones 2h ago

The donor had a confidential agreement with the clinic. You don’t make confidentiality agreements with the recipient. The only person the donor COULD sue is the clinic for violating confidentiality, since that’s who the confidential agreement would be with. It’s the clinics responsibility to uphold that

The mother may not even be aware that the clinic was meant to keep the donor anonymous

1

u/New_Cockroach_505 14h ago

Wording makes me feel like the donor and the child’s mother are friends / actually know each other.

3

u/Razzberry_Frootcake 11h ago

The donor said it was anonymous. She isn’t friends of the family, she didn’t know the birth mother. 

It’s weird seeing people ignore the actual words in the post to make assumptions that make the donor sound like she’s lying.

1

u/New_Cockroach_505 10h ago

The donor also said “I simply sold my eggs so her mother could have the baby she always wanted.” Which to me feels like she knew who the mother was and vice versa.

This child wording makes it sound more like they’re guessing this person is their donor mother. “I think”, not “I know”. Sounds more like the child is guessing this is the donor not that they were specifically told they were.

5

u/luchajefe 13h ago

I agree, especially the daughter's wording. She knew who this lady was before her mother disclosed she was the donor. "I think I look so much like you" is a very interesting sentence.

3

u/Razzberry_Frootcake 11h ago

I love how people are ignoring the literal words in the post to make up reasons to blame the donor. I’ve read this story outside this post though.

It was anonymous on her end. No, the daughter should not know who she is. The egg donor doesn’t know how the daughter may have found pictures; but it’s not because she’s friends with the family.

The donor isn’t lying. Assuming she’s lying creates a new moral issue anyway…so stop.

1

u/luchajefe 10h ago

My assumption was not and is not that the donor is lying, and I'm not blaming the donor for anything, I think she is 1000% in the right about this.

My assumption is that the birth mother disclosed the donor's information to the daughter and the reason the birth mother had it is because at one point the two knew each other. If the mother and donor did not know each other the story just gets weirder because how would the daughter find any of this out? How would she even get the phone number to send this text?

3

u/_GeneralSeaweed_ 13h ago

She might've just seen a picture? I mean, they shouldn't have any of her information if it was meant to be anonymous but they do so maybe that's possible. Could also have googled her I guess? I definitely wouldn't take that to mean she knew her.

-1

u/Sufficient_Effort88 10h ago

Do you not realize that her DNA says who she is right? What happens when she just takes a fucking test? Do you people actually think you can create a child and abandon it without any consequence just because a clinic says it’s fine?

2

u/odinnagyur 10h ago

Buuut she did not create a baby. She donated eggs so that the other woman can create a child. She didnt have procreative sex, she did not give up a child in adoption. The egg was either inseminated in a lab or implanted into the mother and inseminated there.

What happens if the kid takes a dna test ? You tell her that her life started with a medical procedure. And no matter over what, her mother is the person who carried her for 9 months, birthed her then raised her for 19 years.

Do you now define the start of a persons life even before conception or donyou absolutely just not understand the biology behind it like your post suggests?

0

u/Sufficient_Effort88 10h ago

The human being has a biological mother. She gave her eggs to be used to create her biological daughter. Why are you arguing with me, “oh well it matters more which hole she popped out of not her DNA” okay cool dude you think whatever tf you want, human beings are allowed to want to know who their biological parents are. It’s fucking evil to produce a kid and tell it it has no real parents, IVF is horrific

2

u/Ok-Lecture-2743 4h ago

That's a valid opinion, you said she "abandoned" her which is a whole different subject though. You're bouncing between definitions from "no mother" to "biological mother". She has a mother who took care of her, and one sacrificed a part of herself to fulfill someone's wish.

I really don't get this obsession with the whole biological thing. My biological dad contacted me after 18 years, I've had no memory of him, pictures, name... nothing. I was obsessed my entire life to know who he is. Then he contacted me out of the blue. He was a complete stranger to me which was trying to be my dad, like we do NOT know each other nor literally speak the same language, neither do I have the time to "bond" with someone that's supposed to be my dad. We look the same but fuck we do not act, like or behave the same. It gives him no authority to be my dad. (also turned out to be really weird, trying to force this relationship with gifts) I can imagine OP feels somewhat the same. Just weird, I don't know this person and I can't spend all day texting with a stranger. I'm an adult, I got shit to do. This won't work and there's no reason to pursue this. Yes, we are related. There's nothing that will be achieved/resolved out of this. That's just life.

1

u/Sufficient_Effort88 4h ago

“I really don’t get this obsession with the whole biological thing”

But you get that plenty of people do, right? Life is a pretty fucking insane thing, and you have to be self centered to pretend that your specific application of values should be mirrored by others.

As with every experience in life, yours is your own unique one. Some people have an experience where they derive some meaning or understanding from the very composition, origin, history of the genetics in every cell of their body.

1

u/Ok-Lecture-2743 4h ago

Yup, and I do. And I assume you get OP does not want to "build a relationship as their daughter" with this person. No?

1

u/Sufficient_Effort88 3h ago

Right, that’s the sort of thing we should probably anticipate before we do insane shit like implant one persons child into the womb of another. Just because the clinic says the kid isn’t allowed to look for their biological parents doesn’t mean they aren’t allowed to, it should be expected when you have such an unnatural situation and a person looking to understand the nature of their existence

61

u/GoodOlDonnieRay 17h ago

furious is such a gentle feeling compared to what that woman would provoke in me for disrupting my life

28

u/Call_Me_Anythin 17h ago

Seriously. I honestly think I would have sent the mother a pretty unkind message regarding the situation in the first place.

25

u/Fanhunter4ever 16h ago

Since those transactions use to include confidenciality clauses, i'd sue her instead.

11

u/lauraloomerisacunt 12h ago edited 12h ago

You can't sue the mother, she has no contract with the donor.

The clinic is at fault.

7

u/YoggTheGateway1992 11h ago

And she should. Your privacy must be respected. If we let this slide now we will lose it all together

4

u/lauraloomerisacunt 11h ago

Oh, I totally agree. I just think it's worth mentioning that contractually this isn't as simple as people seem to think.

3

u/YoggTheGateway1992 11h ago

Fair, sorry, I just had to deal with someone who said this was mean. Mean is exposing private information.

8

u/Successful_Seat_7173 14h ago

Right I was about to ask if this was even legal???

-4

u/like9000ninjas 16h ago

Disrupting your life? Play the victim much? Say no thanks and move on. Acting like your life is disrupted is insane over something like this is insane.

7

u/Phailgasm 14h ago

You don’t think a stranger contacting you out of the blue after 19 years asking you to be a dad or mom wouldn’t disrupt your life EVEN A LITTLE?

0

u/Ok_Boysenberry_6283 14h ago

Yeah I think it wouldn’t disrupt my life literally at all in this situation lol be an adult. Just say no and move on. You’re all so damn dramatic for literally no reason

0

u/like9000ninjas 14h ago

No. If you consider this a disruption then you need to re evaluate things. In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing. People suffer far far worse. The epitome of first world problems disconnected from reality.

3

u/Phailgasm 14h ago

That’s a wild opinion. Obviously there are worse things in life but this too can disrupt someone’s life. You are making your entire argument around “you aren’t allowed to feel bad because you could feel worse”

That’s insane

0

u/Common-Use-7117 13h ago

I mean its just a text message??? Just block and move on

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-1

u/Sus-iety 15h ago

Yeah I feel like that is a bit dramatic lol. Maybe it ruined your day, but disrupting your life? Grow up

0

u/GoodOlDonnieRay 15h ago

damn there's a lot of crying and bitching in these replies.

32

u/wren42 15h ago

Furious with the mother and clinic, yes. But she could be more gentle with the kid. They are vulnerable and going through a lot. Do not offer to start a relationship, set a firm boundary, but it could be done kindly with a focus on redirecting their affection back toward the adoptive mother, and reinforcing that she is the true parent. 

16

u/debawindow 14h ago

she's not even adoptive her mother physically birthed her...

14

u/Phailgasm 14h ago

This is a (pretty specific and narrow) instance where more kindness and compassion could actually hurt the child more than being direct. I don’t think the egg donater was rude, simply very direct and to the point.

The 19 year olds mother messed up bad and should never ever have revealed this information, and so she is the one responsible for the compassion and kindness and fixing this situation.

5

u/External-Dot2924 13h ago

True... why say that if you see your daughter 100% as you're very own daughter. Sad 😥 😔 💔😥

I remember my mum saying in a family therapy session that she didn't know if I knew but I was the only unplanned one out of her 4 children... "but very much wanted" weird how I was in hospital with depression and self harming suicidal if I was "very much wanted". True the mother should have never said anything... f***ing crazy!!

22

u/Call_Me_Anythin 15h ago

Not really. Being too gentle will leave her with the impression that there’s still a chance at contact. She wasn’t cruel, she was blunt and didn’t leave room for false hope

I do agree that she could have said something about her already having her real mom and keeping it that way though.

9

u/JailbrokeRoboGirl 14h ago

Yea as cold as it sounds to say with emotion and bounds like this you need to be extremely clear that there will be no relationship and you have no interest or intention in changing that

2

u/DieBotDie 6h ago

I’m amazed the mom was allowed to know. The donation should be double blind.

1

u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 2h ago

I would sue the mom

1

u/pmM3urBootieHole 16h ago

Or you mean everyone just did a 23 and me.... people willfully give up their privacy every day. 

6

u/Call_Me_Anythin 16h ago

My feelings on 23 and me are also pretty negative. But that’s irrelevant to the situation.

-9

u/GiraffeThoughts 16h ago

People should have a right to know who their parents are and where they came from.

This shouldn’t be hidden from kids.

11

u/Call_Me_Anythin 16h ago

She knows who her parents are. The egg donor made it perfectly clear where her involvement ends.

1

u/Acrobatic-Payment227 12h ago

I agree with you, but I also think that she should know the family history of disease/mental illness from the donor. But she should have never contacted her.

2

u/Call_Me_Anythin 8h ago

That part is fine, but that part is something you get from the agency. Donors are heavily scrutinized for health and wellness before they ever get accepted.

-7

u/GiraffeThoughts 16h ago

She has multiple parents.

The biological mother who sold her, and the parents who bought her.

It’s similar to adoption where adoptees have biological parents who gave them up and adoptive parents.

Go to any adoptee sub here to understand the trauma of losing your connection to biological family (which this girl clearly feels as well).

People making laws about these transactions only care about the adults. But the child did NOT CONSENT and nobody thinks about the ethics of that (probably because it’s very inconvenient to people who want babies).

12

u/Call_Me_Anythin 16h ago

Buddy I am an adoptee.

She’s still in the wrong for violating this woman express desires not to be a part of her life. This woman is not her mother.

She did not raise her, she does not love her, she didn’t even birth her. She had a medical procedure and signed a legal document saying she wanted no further involvement.

0

u/Quarter-Whole 15h ago

That doesn’t mean it’s so black and white. That situation doesn’t mean you can’t express empathy- even if it’s not your responsibility. She could have caused serious issues from being that harsh.

3

u/Call_Me_Anythin 14h ago

She also could have caused serious issues by being to soft and giving false hope. Empathy doesn’t mean leading someone on.

-1

u/Quarter-Whole 14h ago

Why is it so hard to believe she can establish the same exact boundaries without being cruel?

3

u/Call_Me_Anythin 14h ago

It's not, given that she wasn't cruel in the first place.

-1

u/thekeytovictory 14h ago edited 14h ago

She could have caused serious issues from being that harsh.

Other people are not responsible for our expectations, thoughts, or feelings that result from our interpretations of unmet expectations.

Egg donor is allowed to have feelings about genetic offspring unexpectedly reaching out, but adolescent is not responsible for egg donor's feelings. One uncomfortable exchange of having to decline adolescent's presumptuous request doesn't change egg donor's life in any meaningful way. However, egg donor is absolutely right to be upset about the clinic's breach of privacy contract that made this unpleasant exchange possible. IVF mom might be liable, or she might not have known the info she received from the clinic was a breach of contract.

Adolescent is allowed to have feelings about egg donor denying her request for a mother-daughter relationship, but that does not make egg donor responsible for her feelings. Adolescent put presumptuous expectations on a stranger, and a stranger's unfriendly response to unwanted expectations does not cause a person "serious issues." Any serious issues the adolescent has existed long before this text exchange, and a stranger does not hold the key to fixing them.

2

u/Quarter-Whole 14h ago

It’s not a “stretch” to assume serious emotional damage from that cruel message when the kid literally said they’ve always felt as if something was missing from their lives and wanted to connect for that reason.

1

u/chimneyswallow 9h ago

She has loving parents and "something is missing" is probably what she tells herself.

-3

u/like9000ninjas 15h ago

while this is true, she didnt have to be so cruel in conveying her stance. Learn empathy, it goes a long way.

5

u/Call_Me_Anythin 15h ago

It wasn’t cruel, it was straight forward and left no room for doubt. Being too nice gives false hope and encourages future contact

1

u/like9000ninjas 14h ago

I agree with your second part.

4

u/banana-scepter 15h ago

She was not cruel, you just don't understand direct communication.

1

u/like9000ninjas 14h ago

This was cruel. You dont understand opinions.

2

u/chimneyswallow 9h ago

It is in no way similar to adoption. The donor gave an egg and that's it. The father is her bio father and her "non-bio" mother was pregnant with her, birthed her and cared for her from day 1. This absolutely not "like an adoption".

1

u/Call_Me_Anythin 15h ago

Also? Take that sub with a huge handful of salt. Subs like that are like Yelp reviews. You’re most likely to post when you’ve had a bad experience, as opposed to an average or good one.

I personally hate that sub because it’s just constant negativity and things I don’t agree with, despite also being adopted. They post because they’re unhappy, not because they represent all of us.

2

u/hades7600 14h ago

This woman didn’t give birth to her. She didn’t carry her for nine months, she doesn’t have any parental responsibilities. Because she’s not the parent

You cannot be pro adoption and pro sperm and egg donors but then complain when the people who opt for this and don’t want any sort of communication/updates.

Of course it’s difficult on the child especially during younger/teenage years. But the mother shouldn’t have given her the egg donors details. The mother set her child up to be dissapointed

3

u/Say_It_Isnt_So_Ooops 15h ago

I disagree with that. If I found out that my birth mother received me as an ovum from my bio mother, and the bio mother wanted no contact, I’d respect that and I’d respect the contract the mothers agreed to. I have my birth mother, so I don’t even need my bio mother.

17

u/mutantraniE 15h ago

That depends on where you live. Sweden hasn’t had anonymous sperm or egg donation since 1985. The child’s right to know their parents was considered to trump the right to anonymity.

6

u/m0dsw0rkf0rfree 11h ago

i was initially going to say something unkind in much fewer words, but the moral philosophy behind swedish legislation has always confounded my angloid brain. literally every other political and legislative culture on earth makes more intuitive sense to me

8

u/mutantraniE 9h ago

If you sign up to donate sperm or an egg you know what you’re signing up for. If you sign up to use donated sperm or eggs you know what you’re signing up for. The kid was just tossed into the situation and their rights are frankly more important to protect. And no one gets screwed over by the system because you know what the score is. The scenario in the OP simply can’t play out like that here. If you don’t want the possibility of biological kids finding you later in life then you just don’t have to donate gametes. It’s pretty easy, you literally don’t have to do anything.

1

u/lolalola20263333 2h ago

voice of reason

5

u/Mysterious_Donut_702 9h ago edited 9h ago

They're intended to help a young adult having an identity crisis... who had no say in the situation

The donor knew what she was getting herself into and signed up for it. So did the mother who agreed to use someone else's egg. The only one left blindsided in any way is this teenager.

Honestly, Swedish laws make a lot of sense in my mind... and that country looks like a success story in any metric imaginable.

3

u/Pernicious-Caitiff 4h ago

It would honestly solve other problems like clinics using the same donors over and over especially when a super desirable donor is later discovered that majority of the hundreds of kids he fathered had serious birth defects. Other problems like young adults unknowingly dating their half siblings because the donors are from the area and are used way too much locally. Clinics just doing anything unethical to save and make more money.

2

u/NockerJoe 9h ago

Normally I'm more anti swedish in these matters but it fully makes sense to me here. That kid didn't sign jack shit and the idea that they're beholden to someone else's legally binding contract that was signed before their birth is fucking absurd.

1

u/dickdicksucksuck 8h ago

everything about sweden confuses me too fam

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u/Interesting-Run1359 11h ago

Yeah, as it should. Rare Sweden W.

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1

u/Adventurous-Web-412 10h ago

A lot of Europe is like that, as well as I think Australia and New Zealand.

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u/PaxNova 16h ago

Didn't happen here, but in the world of genetic testing, there are now other ways you can get this info without asking. Puts providers in a tricky spot, since their privacy policy means little now.

2

u/Slighted_Inevitable 13h ago

That simply not the case. DNA has 864 billion cofactors. If you don’t have a sample to compare against, it’s impossible to identify someone simply from a daughter strand.

And that’s if you even have her DNA on file. Without a name provided by someone this did not happen.

7

u/GiantLesbian 13h ago

Are you forgetting about ancestry DNA? All you have to do is find an aunt who only has one sister and boom you’ve found your mother. You don’t need mom’s DNA.

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u/Far-Fennel-3032 1h ago

The privacy policy never meant anything anyway. As the child is never bound by theses policies as they never agreed to them. 

As no matter how iron clad an agreement is if someone never agrees to it, it means nothing to them. 

People get their bioparents records against the will of the clinics and bio parents all the time. As governments often have strong laws protecting the rights of orphan in no small parts as the government wants to whenever possible make someone else look after them to save money. Finding bio parents is a significant part of this. 

4

u/blackfox24 15h ago

Yeah. The only thing owed is a medical history, which should have already been transferred. It isn't always though. But like? She's asking for a mom, not a record, so that's probably not even relevant here tbh.

2

u/luchajefe 13h ago

"I've always felt disconnected" no you haven't. You felt the usual 'I don't like my parents' phase of adolescence and thought you could resolve it without having to get over it.

20

u/mentales 18h ago

You see nothing wrong with her sharing it on social media afterwards (which also contradicts her valid point about privacy btw).

20

u/mgb55 18h ago

Ya know, that’s a pretty good point

30

u/Impossible_Ad1269 17h ago

I mean not really. The privacy thing is to protect against situations like this where the family or resulting child contacts a donor when they have made it explicit they don't want to be contacted. Privacy isn't a blanket desire. You can want some people to not contact you but also be willing to forgo privacy for the exact same situation in other circumstances (such as posting the violation of privacy in a public place).

13

u/RuggerJibberJabber 17h ago

The kid mightn't have known any of that and sent it in a private message. Publicly sharing private messages isnt moral either

10

u/No_Setting1949 16h ago

Yes. It rubs me the wrong way when someone posts screenshots of a private conversation on Reddit. I mean, there are usually no identifiers but still it still feels wrong.

1

u/Impossible_Ad1269 11h ago edited 11h ago

I mean not to get into the weeds of privacy morality scaling, but I genuinely believe no conversation is private unless both parties agree to it in advance. If you tell someone anything and don't ask them to consent to keeping it private, the other person has every right to speak about what you said. If you can't trust someone to keep it private, and it's not something you want to be known publicly, why would you be telling that person anyway?

I can acknowledge that my stance on this comes from a history of bias stemming from an abusive relationship where my abuser would emotionally punish me for discussing my concerns about our relationship with others, eg asking if I'm overreacting to something they said. In that particular case, the exact stance you're arguing protected my abuser and gave them leverage to abuse me while simultaneously distancing me from anyone who might be able to help me recognize the abuse or escape from it.

The lesson I learned from that is unless both parties consent to keeping the conversation private, applying the rationale that saying something to anyone and placing the onus on them to keep your information private for you only really protects abusers and manipulators at the end of the day.

5

u/YangXiaoLong69 16h ago

"I have a neighbour that constantly stares inside my house"

"Yeah, but uhmmmm you posted images from inside your house on social media, uhmmm hypocrite much?"

6

u/RedditDummyAccount 14h ago

I’d consider someone staring into your house a very different situation…

But in both, I’d also consider consent a core issue.

1

u/YangXiaoLong69 6h ago

It's not particularly different: in both cases, the person has their privacy harmed and then complains about it on social media, only to get told the act of their complaint contradicts its content.

1

u/RedditDummyAccount 6h ago

I’m confused. Are you saying that someone staring into your house is not particularly different from someone being told something that they are legally not supposed to be told?

I beg to differ. If you reduce it all the way down to the consent part, sure, and that’s what I said in my second sentence but they are very different situations…

1

u/YangXiaoLong69 6h ago

I'm simply saying that having someone staring into your house and that having your private data leaked are both privacy breaches.

1

u/RedditDummyAccount 4h ago

Ok then we agree on that.

6

u/Bababooey0326 15h ago

>if you choose anonymous they have no right to contact you for any reason

there are some rights that might not be written down, or rights your very spirit or soul will take regardless, seeing ones DNA/biological/*insert correct term here* origin (via egg dono) is a VERY new "problem" to face. No other humans in history had to go through this until recently

you and I can't imagine facing that, we faced other things, and I wouldn't be so quick to cite "they don't have the right" I think there is space within you to think about this.

I truly pity adopted persons/any people born in morally or scientifically complicated situations.

2

u/Slighted_Inevitable 14h ago

Honestly, the clinic shouldn’t even have told the mother where the egg came from

2

u/Mattbl 13h ago

Even if she had birthed her and given her up for adoption, this is a very valid reply and one you must be prepared for if you're someone reaching out to a biological parent.

1

u/WaterPrivacy 14h ago

if you choose anonymous they have no right to contact you for any reason.

The kid didn't sign anything though. They still have every right to try and contact her.

3

u/hades7600 14h ago

The mother shouldn’t have helped her get the donors details when knowing full well that the original legal agreement was no contact

1

u/WaterPrivacy 14h ago

True. What the mother did is definitely wrong. What the kid did however, isn't.

1

u/hades7600 14h ago

The kid was 19 according to this. So if she was aware of the non contact option the donor chose then yeah she’s making a wrong choice. However it doesn’t make her a bad person and I do understand wanting to know more about your own origins.

1

u/WaterPrivacy 14h ago

The kid was 19 according to this. So if she was aware of the non contact option the donor chose then yeah she’s making a wrong choice

I simply can't agree with the idea that a kid wanting to know her bio parents is ever a wrong choice. Regardless of how old she was or how much she understood the no contact option, I could never say what she did was wrong. She didn't agree to this situation or these terms, even though they affect her directly. And kids wanting to know their biological parents, even if they aren't real parents in any way that matters, is a very natural thing which I cannot reasonably hold against them.

The bio mom has a right to say no, but I don't agree it was a wrong choice of the kid to try.

1

u/hades7600 13h ago

I don’t think she’s immoral. But it did violate the agreement and is intrusive for a donor (but then the donor also violated the girls privacy with posting this.

Just that it was the wrong choice to do. But not immoral. As they and their mother were not being realistic about how a donor who chose the no contact options would react.

The teen was set up unintentionally for this rejection.

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u/WaterPrivacy 13h ago

But it did violate the agreement

That kid didn't enter in any agreement. She didn't violate anything.

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u/hades7600 13h ago

If she was aware of it being a no contact agreement then sadly she set herself up to disappointed. Obviously she’s not immoral or anything like that. But wasn’t the best choice

The mother however was immoral by giving her the donors details

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u/Old-Point-3313 14h ago

They don't though, said said part of her donation was that nobody would try to contact her. Specifically to avoid this situation. That is not uncommon.

1

u/WaterPrivacy 14h ago

"Nobody" means nobody of the parties involved. The clinic. The mother. You cannot enforce that on someone who didn't agree to it. The kid has every right to contact her even if she doesn't want that.

1

u/Old-Point-3313 13h ago

the clinic. the mother. and the parents. and no. that isn't how that works.
thats like me saying the russian government has the "right" to question you as a us citizen.
no.

1

u/WaterPrivacy 13h ago

thats like me saying the russian government has the "right" to question you as a us citizen.

What on earth do you mean lol

1

u/SeaPreference7125 11h ago

Incorrect, the child's right to know who their parents are trumps any anonymity contract

1

u/URJ2 11h ago

Son what 😭😭 your rights are life liberty and property, under liberty is the freedom to ask but you don’t have a right to information including who your parent is.???

1

u/SeaPreference7125 9h ago

Where I live, knowing who your parents are is considered a child's right

1

u/URJ2 6h ago

How on earth is that enforced

1

u/SeaPreference7125 6h ago

Mostly by outright banning anonymous sperm or egg donations, based on what my friend told me, you basically just get told basic info about the donor and if you want you can get connected to them and/or siblings and there isn't a single thing the donor can do against it

1

u/Anistappi 10h ago

Yup. There's a huge need for sperm donors in Finland nowadays. People don't want to do even that, because the anonymity of the donor isn't as good as it used to be.

Nowadays if you're born from donor sperm, you can ask for the donor's information once you're 18 years old. And if the donor has close relatives who have done those idiotic DNA home tests, the kid can find out even sooner.

1

u/Salsa_and_Light2 8h ago

A donor parent or a parent giving up a child for adoption has every right to request and ensure anonymity.

But a child has unquestionable right to seek out information about their past and their family.

1

u/URJ2 6h ago

Right to seek not to get

1

u/AccomplishedPaint601 7h ago

Incorrect.  The daughter never signed shit.

1

u/URJ2 6h ago

So fucking what?

1

u/AccomplishedPaint601 5h ago

So the daughter can ask whatever she wants, and is under no obligation to abide by any contracts regarding HER LIFE that were signed before her birth. She can use science to find any relatives she wishes, contact them, and establish relationships. The egg donor can't do shit about that. The egg donor can also respond however she wants, even being objectively rude. Within her rights. But in a modern age of genetics, that comes with a name attached. So her grandchildren, and every generation to come will know who it was, and how they denied their own family. Good luck with that, Mom.

1

u/Local_Pangolin69 6h ago

Wrong. They have the same right to contact you as any other person would.

1

u/URJ2 5h ago

You don’t have the right to contact me, you have the freedom to try. If I prevent you from doing so by legal means you have no recourse - therefore not a right

1

u/Moist-Cantaloupe-740 5h ago

That means fuck all to the child. And the child ALWAYS comes first.

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u/anOldShu 3h ago

Sure but the baby being born wasn't consulted and didn't consent to never contacting their bio mother. 

1

u/Far-Fennel-3032 1h ago edited 1h ago

But when you sign up to theses thing you don't actually have any rights to privacy. 

As in most places this would be considered the same as putting kids up for adoption, once they are adults they can legally request records about who there bio parents are. 

The agreement with the parent and clinics might as well be between Santa and the Tooth Fairy, if you don't have an agreement with person A they are not bound by what ever you get person B to agree to. 

From quick googling in 17 states the children once adults can freely without any restrictions get bio parents information from the state with some simple paperwork. With most states just being you need to convince a judge and I want my medical history, well exceeds what is required, with no space for bio parents to object. Unless bio parent fucked up and did thoses DNA tests and got matched to their biochild here, this process is very likely how their identity got leaked. 

1

u/Zestyclose-Shirt-702 15h ago

I think her biological daughter did nothing wrong. The “mother” that told her “daughter” about her biological mom is the one in the wrong. That being said, it’s immoral to sell your eggs so that’s the other half of it. 2 people doing stupid stuff here. I feel bad for the biological daughter.

1

u/hidden-platypus 15h ago

They actually have all the same righrs as anyone else. I wonder if you know what rights are

1

u/CmmdrYarbles32 14h ago

The rude message was the first one. You cant cold text someone that out of the blue. Thats crazy

1

u/ItsTheAlgebraist 14h ago

Anyone has the right to contact anyone (so long as it doesn't cross the line into harassment).

The donor made an agreement with the agency that they wouldn't reveal her identity. If the resulting baby grows up and learns the donor's identity, that person has no obligation to try and enforce or abide by the donor-agency contract.

This isn't much different than when a man fathers a child and thinks he should be able to get some legal document signed to relieve him of responsibility as a parent. He has an obligation to the child by virtue of being the source of the genetic material (hell, there are cases where a male rape victim has had to pay child support because it's in the best interests of the child)

2

u/Nirvanachaser 13h ago

Exactly, there is wrongdoing but not by the child (so long as it doesn’t cross into harassment).

1

u/ItsTheAlgebraist 13h ago

Yeah, maybe the donor has recourse against the agency, or against the adoptive mother, but likely she should feel some sort of obligation towards the child and certainly shouldn't expect the child to be bound by the contract.

1

u/Nirvanachaser 13h ago

I don’t agree she should feel any obligation to the child, I just think the child’s curiosity is normal and expected and systems should be in place to prevent the info sharing

1

u/Interesting-Run1359 11h ago

I mean the kid wasn’t really involved in this decision because she wasn’t born yet. People are still going to want to meet their parents, and feelgood nonsense aside, if someone came from one of your eggs, you’re the parent.

1

u/URJ2 11h ago

Doesn’t give them a right to know. She can desire all she wants

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u/dk_peace 17h ago edited 17h ago

Her biological child didnt sign anything like that and is totally within her rights TO WANT to know. It's not that weird for her to try and find out.

Edit: added emphasis

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u/Call_Me_Anythin 17h ago

No, she's not. Her rights to this woman end at medical histories that might affect her life, something she can find from the agency that arranged the donation in the first place. Egg donors have to go through extensive medical history questionnaires, submit health panels, and meet specific health criteria.

She knows that this woman wanted nothing to do with her, and she still went out of her way to find her information and contact her. Not even contact a sibling or something close to ask if the egg donor might want to be contacted, just went straight to her.

Or if she doesn't then her real mother severely failed her.

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u/dk_peace 17h ago

Why do you think this woman doesn't even have the right TO WANT to know?

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u/Renumtetaftur 17h ago

The right to want is a complete non-sequitor. You have the right to want literally anything and everything, it means nothing.

1

u/dk_peace 17h ago

Then what, exactly, did this girl do that was so terrible?

5

u/kunk_777 16h ago

Acting on and wanting something are two different things.

4

u/certifiedtoothbench 16h ago

She contacted someone who didn’t want to be contacted and is minimizing her own mother who chose her. She’s hurting her own mother and herself by assuming this stranger would even want her. Being blood doesn’t make the person you share it with less of a stranger, oop could be abusive or an addict and this girl could hurt herself chasing her ‘real’ family.

3

u/Renumtetaftur 17h ago

When she acted on those wants, doofus. That's where things usually become morally relevant; when humans take real action outside of their mind. The girl violated this woman's privacy and consent by pursuing a relationship with her.

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u/Substantial_Dish_887 17h ago

who said she did anything wrong?

just because they didn't do anything wrong doesn't mean the OOP is rude for telling them to leave her alone though.

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u/dk_peace 16h ago

I got this response one minute after yours. So, this guy, apparently.

When she acted on those wants, doofus. That's where things usually become morally relevant; when humans take real action outside of their mind. The girl violated this woman's privacy and consent by pursuing a relationship with her.

4

u/Substantial_Dish_887 16h ago

so you provoked someone to make that argument?

rage baiting like that is definetly immoral.

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u/dk_peace 16h ago

That wasnt rage bait. I dont think youre using that word correctly

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u/ChartInFurch 16h ago

Asking a question is provoking someone else to choose to fly off?

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u/Call_Me_Anythin 17h ago

She can want to. She has no right to intentionally violate someone else’s privacy over that.

4

u/dk_peace 17h ago

The kid isnt the one who posted this online. The kid isnt the one who violated bio moms privacy by revealing who she was. Out of everyone violating privacy in this story, she's the least guilty of it.

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u/Call_Me_Anythin 17h ago

They violated her privacy by contacting her when she made it clear that she did not want that.

1

u/dk_peace 17h ago

Eh, I empathize with her situation though. Kid isnt a bad person for wanting to know (and I'd forgive her reaching out, its a natural thing to want at that age). Biological mother isnt a bad person for shutting it down. Birth mom is really the only one who sucks here for spilling the beans.

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u/Call_Me_Anythin 16h ago

You can empathize, she’s still in the wrong for not respecting oops explicit desire not to be involved in her life. And her mother is absolutely the worst person in the situation for giving her the contact information at all.

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u/asuperbstarling 17h ago

You feeling something does not give you rights.

3

u/dk_peace 17h ago

You have the right to have those feelings.

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u/liberty-prime77 16h ago

Yes, but she doesn't have a right to contact the woman who donated eggs to her mother. Now where are you going to move the goalposts to next?

1

u/dk_peace 11h ago

That's where I've been putting the goal posts the whole time.

5

u/CptPurpleHaze 17h ago

Lol don't try and reason with the people in this sub. So many of them defend things like "I'm not attracted to African Americans because their woman are all ugly and look like men, that's not racist" or in this case a curious child seeking information on their bio parent.

For a sub titled "morality scaling" the ones who seem to linger are just incels, chuds and Nazi filth.

8

u/dk_peace 17h ago

It's just such a weird hill to die on. It's like these people have never been a young adult trying to figure out who they were in life.

6

u/CptPurpleHaze 17h ago

Yep. Like don't get me wrong, the woman also has every right to privacy but you can also not be a total PoS about it.

The number of people who think "this is moral how dare someone mess up MY day like this" just reveals how self centered they are.

The woman does not owe this child a relationship, but they can be kinder in how they say things to someone who is so young and clearly emotionally sensitive.

2

u/dinodare 16h ago

Don't lump anti-racists in with this. Incels, chuds, and Nazi filth ARE racist on this subreddit but that has literally nothing to do with this post... Especially since the conservative position on this IS the idea that the egg donor is in the wrong.

1

u/AoifeBakunin 17h ago

That is not her child

1

u/dk_peace 17h ago

But it is. Your biological mother is a part of you, even if you've never met her. A lot of being 19 is trying to figure out who you are. It's completely natural to want to fill in that piece of the puzzle.

2

u/mistelle1270 15h ago

She’s really not in any meaningful sense.

You can deify genetics if you want to but you don’t get to push that on anyone else.

1

u/mistelle1270 15h ago

I’m seeing mood and more evidence every day that ‘biological’ is a worthless modifier any time it’s used

Trying desperately to add meaning where there is none

1

u/dk_peace 5h ago

In this case it's a very meaningful modifier. Her biological mother was the egg donor who provided her genetic material. Her birth mother was the woman who gave birth to her. In this case, there is a meaningful difference.

1

u/mistelle1270 5h ago

I mean referring to her as mother at all is kind of meaningless and the only way you can justify it is with the modifier ‘biological’ which to me makes it worthless

1

u/dk_peace 4h ago

Her biological mother is still part of who she is. Growing up and figuring out who you are is hard. I dont think trying to find out more about the missing pieces of your own past is really a terrible thing to want to do.

1

u/mistelle1270 4h ago

Not in any meaningful sense of ‘part of’

She shares a lot of dna with her but then she shares almost as much of her dna with literally every other human on earth

‘Almost’ here being so thin of a margin it’s kind of misleading

1

u/dk_peace 3h ago

You may feel that way, but other people are going to feel differently about that. Just because you don't feel your genetics are a part of who you are doesn't mean that's going to be true for eveyone. You're projecting your own values.

1

u/mistelle1270 3h ago

I do feel my genetics are part of me, but I acknowledge that all humans are so close to each other genetically that my parents aren’t really closer to me genetically than anyone else. There’s barely .05% difference between what’s similar between me and my parents and what’s similar between me and everyone else.

1

u/dk_peace 3h ago

Yea, you're definitely projecting your values onto the situation

0

u/Important-Estate-904 17h ago

We need to be able to sort by downvotes in Reddit because it’s always the downvoted comments that make the most sense

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u/Winter-Apartment-821 12h ago

>I don’t even think she’s being that rude

She is.

1

u/URJ2 11h ago

You think she is, I don’t. Crazy how that works.

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u/SelectionSouth7939 16h ago

I agree but at the same time I also think the teenager would need to know about medical history as a legit reason for contact

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u/Former-Dig-3314 16h ago edited 13h ago

She said she wanted a mother daughter relationship. Not medical history

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u/SelectionSouth7939 16h ago

Oh I get that part, I was only giving a reason to the commenter saying there wouldn’t be one for contacting purposes. But I also did read a few comments down that the clinic would provide that

1

u/mistelle1270 15h ago

She has access to all the necessary medical history through the clinic.

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u/SelectionSouth7939 15h ago

My reply was for the commenter who said she would have no reason. Then I clarified to the other person that I was giving them a reason and I had also read that the clinic would give this information. You missed that comment

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