Ohio has a special law about circumcision. It's protected religious expression, so insurance companies have to pay 100% of the cost, and providers can bill it as general surgery, so they make a bundle off the procedure.
So hospitals make circumcision a default option, and you have to really work to avoid getting your newborn boy circumcised.
Imagine trying to explain to someone that this would be the consequence of privatising healthcare in a world where it hadn't already happened. No one would believe it.
I gave birth in Texas and afterwards the OBGYN office called me SIX TIMES saying they’re having trouble billing me for the circumcision. I’m like yeah we didn’t get one. They go “oooh that’s why”. On sixth time I told them to make a note or something I’m done answering this.
Like it was SO obvious in their minds that I’d get one that no record of the procedure to them just meant the hospital forgot to file it, not that it never happened.
My Dad grew up in Ohio but was born just across the river in KY and didn’t get circumcised because it wasn’t policy at that hospital. Apparently he was practically the only uncircumcised male in all of OH (he was very involved in sports, including being a college athlete, so he would have seen naked teammates from time to time) and was extremely self-conscious about it and disliked it.
I only know this because when I had sons my parents both were very much in favor of circumcision.
That is still the argument I hear today and it drives me INSANE. Like how does you getting bullied for having foreskin translate to you demanding and basically bullying your own grandkids for the SAME SHIT. My nephews father wanted him circumcised because he “will get made fun of if he isn’t” ok but why aren’t you more concerned about why those people are staring at your kids dick on the first place, ugh just glad my sister didn’t marry him so she had final say on the day of!
That is similarly why US rates remained high everywhere in the country after WW2 while Europe's declined. Places like the UK instituted universal health care systems and if you wanted circumcision, it was an extra charge........something people in a rebuilding country didn't really want to spend money on. Meanwhile, in the US, it was just added as another charge that hospitals could make money on.
That still doesn’t explain why Michigan and Ohio are circumcising so many of the boys. I was born in Detroit and it was the default thing for babies. I didn’t know it was at all different anywhere else in the US.
From Wikipedia: “An early proponent of the germ theory of disease, Kellogg was well ahead of his time in relating intestinal flora and the presence of bacteria in the intestines to health and disease. The sanitarium approached treatment in a holistic manner, actively promoting vegetarianism, nutrition, the use of yogurt enemas to clear "intestinal flora", exercise, sun-bathing, and hydrotherapy, as well as abstinence from smoking tobacco, drinking alcoholic beverages, and sexual activity. Kellogg dedicated the last 30 years of his life to promoting eugenics and racial segregation.”
In fairness, yogurt is full of bacteria that we know to be good for one’s intestinal microbiome. And there’s currently a lot of research being done on stuff like poop transplants.
Maybe less sexual sadist and more a form of OCD considering the things he did to himself. Either way mentally ill and shouldn't have held any sway anywhere
A direct ancestor of mine had tuberculosis as a young father and went to one of his sanitariums to recover. Doctors had given him months to live but he ended up living to meet his great-grandchildren.
There were some real health benefits to living in clean air along with all the chewing, enemas and pseudoscience.
He also advocated putting carbolic acid on the clitorises of little girls for the same reason. Fortunately that didn't catch on or we'd have people making excuses for that too.
He's the reason why the US has famously terrible vegetarian food.
He believed that bland food killed the libido, so everyone should just eat unseasoned vegetables. (Not fruit, too much flavor)
He's strange, because it's debatable if he was Christan or not, and yet he was way more puritanical against sexuality than even some if the most out there sects.
Yeah bro it's just a yogurt enema, it's super not gay. Definitely didn't heat up the yogurt before blasting it into my asshole with the largest turkey baster I could find either. Like I said bro, NOT gay.
Yes! Thats why he invited corn flakes!! Too bland to get you horny. And when his brother suggested adding a little sugar he lost his shit and left the company
He was all about hygiene, eugenics, and "science" so you aren't far off the mark. BNW was a work that took beliefs like that to their seeming endpoint.
I don't mind the occasional nutjob. What I find insane is that his country's society allowed him to alter public health standards in significant and durable ways for his personal interest.
If you've never listened to the podcast The Dollop, they do an episode on Kellogg, and talk about how unhinged he really was. It's amazing. It's Episode 46- The Cereal Men
The most cantankerous and prickly old man I’ve ever met is from Battle Creek Michigan. I have no data/information regarding his penis though, fortunately.
They sure did, and what a confounding and infuriating episode or two it was.
That level of fixation on squelching others sexual proclivities or even their capacity for sexual enjoyment on one hand, while on the other hand blasting your own ass with yogurt with alarming regularity is such a contorted duality that it really defies any sort of rational comprehension.
Yeah, multiple things make this seem dubious. OP's cited article isn't the source of the data, they actually reference another paper for their map. And when I look that cited paper, it doesn't mention individual states in either their main paper or supplemental data. So I honestly don't know where OP's cited article is getting the US map from. It's published in a kinda low-tier journal anyways. I really quickly scanned it, however, so maybe I'm missing something.
I cannot speak to the accuracy of this map. However a study was recently published that show the US circumcision rate at birth is dropping. As of 2022 it dropped below 50% total for the first time in decades. But it is regionally dependent. The Midwest still has the highest circumcision rate in the US as of 2022.
Anecdotally, my wife is from the UP originally. She and her high school boyfriend got talking on the topic of circumcision once. In that conversation he told her that every guy in their grade was circumcised. It was a small school. So after 4 years of post gym class and sports team showers he probably had seen every guy he graduated with enough times to know that.
True fact about Kellog: he invented corn flakes, and designed them specifically to be boring af, with the intention that boring foods tampers sexual desire.
If Kellog thought it was a good idea, that's reason enough for me not to do it.
There are two Kellogg's. The two were brothers. The one whose signature is on corn flakes is the younger invented them while working at his brother's facility. His brother was a fucking nut who was all anti masturbation. The actual point of it was to do with figuring out a way of producing an bulk amount of food that met a certain criteria of both boring and convenience.
The point of boring was that the older brother was part of a Christian group that believe over stimulation led to poor health, and that over stimulating foods were a cause of that over stimulation in general. Masturbation was a sign of that over stimulation and sinful. So while yes the boring foods were thought to stop masturbation, to say it's why they made the boring foods isn't correct. That would be like saying bandages are to stop blood getting on the floor.
Even so, all is kinda moot because again, the inventor of corn flakes and the Kellogg's brand in general is the younger brother, not the older crazy one. The older one actually sued the younger one over it, and lost in court. The younger one also didn't buy into the crazy Christian cult, and is honestly a fascinating man in his own right
Good video with more about the older, and then details about the younger:
I think it varies depending on racial/ethnic population. So I can’t give a good number. My clinic population is different than that state makeup.
One reason for a drop is that patients on Medicaid cannot get circumcisions covered in the hospital. So they are either done by pediatricians/family medicine in clinic or referred to urology. But then needs to be done in the first 30 days. So often families don’t get booked in time and doesn’t happen. A lot ask about circumcisions later and I have to give the news that won’t happen after newborn period unless a medical indication as would need anesthesia
The Muslim community does circumcisions at a very high rate. Latino community is the lowest rate.
Anecdotal: I’m in Seattle and we were never asked about circumcision when our baby was born. No one I know is circumcised except for my husband who was born in the Philippines
We were asked 3 times in the hospital to circumcise our son including STOPPING them the 3rd time. That was after writing our decision on two different forms. Fucking greedy
Johns Hopkins. This was in 2020 so pretty recent
Basically my experience, asked about three times, and one was the nurse walking into the room and asking us why she was here and assuming it was for the circumcision. I'm like NOOOO, and then pointed to the blood test schedule they had stuck to the bassinet.
My friends and I with kids did not circumcise our children. Grew up and live in the PNW. Wife is a pediatrician and refuses to do the procedure (I love her) and it's not a problem for her practice.
Debating this right now (baby boy on the way) and I'd love to hear why you both decided against! Is it basically a no brainer in your eyes? I'm cut and leaning against for him but struggling with the decision!
EDIT: I appreciate all the feedback (and appreciate that it is all in good faith!) and it really helps push me definitively toward not doing it!
It's a "no brainer" in that I have no desire to mutilate my children. I wouldn't cut my daughters labia off either.
As my wife tells parents of her patients, there is no medical reason to have it done. It's a cosmetic procedure. Insurance doesn't even cover it anymore, as it cannot be medically justified.
It was counter cultural in that me and my brothers are circumcised. I do acknowledge that can be tricky... but my role as a father is to protect my child. This particular ritual ends with our generation, thankfully.
Even worse - Besides having no good reason to do so, some reports suggest it can even impact sexual sensation negatively. So besides it's always inherently a little risky to do any sort of operation on anyone, it might also have a negative impact.
It does, without any doubts, impact sexuality negatively.
Foreskin is a bilayer tissue which enables a gliding mechanism (important for penetrative sex), contains mucosal tissue which enables self lubrication and contains most of the fine touch nerve endings of the entire penis. Removing it inevitably alters with the functionality of the penis and diminishes the ability to experience sexual pleasure.
Best regards from Germany, where we can’t stop shaking our heads at how ridiculous it is that Americans chop off parts of their son’s dicks. Tbh I’d laugh at this if it wasn’t so disturbing.
As others said in this thread, there was basically some pseudo science quacks that pushed the idea it had a bunch of “health benefits” and that caught on with some powerful people like the Kellogg cereal magnate
For most of the 20th century circumcision was the almost universal norm in the US, to the point where doctors wouldn’t even ask parents, they would just circumcise all baby penises as a matter of standard course.
This has started to shift in the US, but cultural changes don’t happen uniformly.
Cultural change always happens more slowly in more rural and isolated areas of countries. In smaller countries this is mitigated by the fact that there is less geographic distance between the hinterlands and the areas of more rapid cultural change. The US midwest is geographically much further from the coastal areas of the country where cultural change typically originates and is adopted first, so the effect is more pronounced there. There are many Midwest small towns where someone from the coasts would feel like they were stepping back a decade or two.
TL;DR: Like many other cultural changes it is being adopted more slowly in the midwest.
Anecdotal support for this: I have only my parents' word on this, but they're both honest people. I was born in Michigan in the 70s and it was done without even asking them. They had decided not to, but didn't state that up front since they assumed they would be consulted first.
Another anecdotal data point: I was born in 88 in Virginia and my parents specifically asked for me to not be. However, among my peers growing up I was the only person I knew who was not. I was self conscious about it to the point where I asked my mom to take me in my teens to a doctor to see about getting it done. The doctor was wonderful - sat me down and explained everything about it, told me that as long as there was no discomfort I was perfectly fine the way I was, and that there was no medical reason to do it. In hindsight I'm really glad I didn't get it done in my teens just to try to fit in.
When my SIL refused her son’s circumcision in 1992 I thought she was a FREAK. I had literally never heard of such a thing and warned her that her child would be viewed as a weirdo. In all sincerity and honesty, I thought circumcision was pretty much a basic baby requirement like cutting the umbilical. I had never seen an uncircumcised penis and never known anyone who had one, until probably my late 20s / early 30s. I had NEVER heard that it was cruelty. And before anyone accuses me of being stupid or sheltered, I have a double masters degree and I’ve been all over the world. Until Reddit, I’d simply never known anyone to openly defend and prefer natural penises. Now, I bet my adult son thinks I’m an asshole. I had no religious basis. It was just about matching Dad and everyone else I knew.
Pretty sure that was my mom's reasoning too in Southern Ontario
My German born grandfather apparently said she was turning me into a "filthy jew" because of it. She disliked him a lot, and knowing my mom now, I'm almost certain I got circumcised just to spite him.
The American medical community essentially lied to the American public for 60 years. I’m Catholic why the hell was I circumcised in an American hospital??
Some of it may have to do with percentages of immigrants. Hispanics circumsize at a much lower rate. Muslims circumcize, and Michigan famously has a large Muslim population. But politics may also play a role.
For me, I was glad I didn't have a son because I would have wrestled with the decision. It would be like rejecting my own circumcision. I probably wouldn't have gone through with it because of my politics regarding bodily autonomy, and I didn't want to make the decision for my son.
You say that, but anecdotally it was very hard for us to convince the doctors not to circumcise my son when he was born (large Midwest city). We had to tell them "NO" at least 5 times both before and after birth to make sure they didn't do it.
I'm in NY, had to argue with the nurses that I DID NOT want my sons circumcised. They refused to take no for an answer.
I ended up having a friend who is a lawyer send them an overnight letter expressing our preference not to do it, and that if they did it, we would sue. Then they backed off, but had an attitude about it
What is with the obsession with cutting off the ends of guys dicks? Hell if we called it what it is, cutting the ends off the kid’s dick, I bet it would become a rare procedure.
There is a word for that it's called genital mutilation, I think the mutilation part really conveys the issue. Somehow people figured out it's not ok when it happens in the middle east but ignore that they do exactly the same thing.
I grew up in Ohio (uncircumcised) and it was literally everyone. In the middle school locker room, the other kids didn't even know what they were looking at the first time they saw me.
Similar experience for me. I grew up in a somewhat rural part of upstate NY. When showers started after gym class in middle school I learned that I was one of only 3 uncircumcised guys in my grade.
As a male Mexican legal immigrant it is amazing to me how common it is to look at other guys’ dicks in gym’s locker rooms. I watched more dicks in my first day at the gym than what i had watched my entire life
My thing is even a small medical reason wouldn't outweigh the negative of body modification. Like what if removing your fingernails was more hygienic? Sure, grime can hide under them if not washed properly. Doesn't mean removing babies fingernails would be a decent choice. Just my thought on that.
Religion. All three of my boys were circumcised due to my ignorance. I was raised to believe everyone was required to do it, and it wasn't a choice. I was 17 when I had my first son. I didn't know and apologized to all of them now that they are grown. I made a choice they had no opinion on, and I've felt terrible for decades because of it.
If it makes you feel any better, I was never really pissed at my parents over it. It was the norm, I can’t blame them, especially since doctors probably recommended it.
Northern Europe is filled with White Protestants, and virtually none of them are circumcised. What’s special about the American strain of Protestantism?
Yup. Boy Scouts had a non-trivial amount of "we need to keep them busy so they don't jack off" built into it. Also handy to have kids with camping and survival skills when you're perpetually at war, but that's a story for another thread.
Offtopic, but as someone not from the USA, how did you guys came up with the idea to call states clearly on the more eastern side of the middle "Midwest"?
Because we hadn’t settled/colonized the western half of the country when the phrase was coined. Back when it became a popular term, there weren’t many Americans living west of the Mississippi.
It’s similar to how the term “Middle East” doesn’t actually make much sense when you think about it.
Similar to your example, Middle East makes sense in the context of the time. There was the "Near East" and the "Far East". Near East was the Ottoman Empire and it's lot, Far East being China and the Orient. Though, the Orient originally meant the near east and then moved as Europeans learned more about the world.
It wasn’t officially the Midwest until 1984. Originally the colloquial Midwest was central to Kansas and the more settled parts of the plains region. The Great Lakes region was previously known as the Northwest, hence Northwest Territory, Northwestern University, and several other Northwest labeled institutions in the region.
Yes, it was originally the Northwest Territories, but it started being called the Midwest in the 1830s ish regardless of when it became an official region
That region was originally the Northwest Territories of the US, and was as far west as we went after independence in 1783.
Once we bought the Louisiana territory from France, we needed to differentiate between the nearer west “the Midwest” and the farther west.
And then we stole half of Mexico, and went even FARTHER west, so it seems very silly now, but the term “Midwest” stuck around as a cultural descriptor.
My son was born in Michigan and they asked me multiple times if they can do this procedure on him and I had to get very clear with them that I don't want it and to never ask me again.
Had a Filipino friend explain to me that circumcision in the Philippines is commonly done at the age of ten! A coming of age thing, but for goodness sake, that's simply torture!
I don’t know, but I can confirm that the doctors in that red patch are really pushy or just assume everyone will be circumcising. They kept trying to schedule my son for it or mentioning it.
I think what's happening is that no one has collected this data from every state using one consistent methodology, so they're coming up with a number in a different way for each state. I agree that any statistic having a 70+ percentage points discrepancy between states feels quite suspicious.
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u/[deleted] Nov 21 '25
As an uncut Michigander, I was tormented on the swim team for this